House of Franklin-Stein back open for business!

[Earth 2 Chris]

I forgot to post these here, but better late than ever. Cindy and I have been doing our annual Halloween series over on Super Mates. Covering a classic monster movie and then a comic that is somehow related to the movie.

So far we've covered House of Frankenstein, Curse of the Werewolf and Dracula (1979) with Frank Langella. One more episode to go!

http://fireandwaterpodcast.com/show/the-super-mates-podcast/

Chris

[PNGwynne]

Ach, the opening to episode 2 made me laugh out loud. Nice job as always.

Was Maxford's Hammer, House of Horror: Behind the Scenes the original book recommendation? It's a good tome.

[Earth 2 Chris]

It was Hammer's Film Legacy - From Quatermass to the Devil's Daughter by Wayne Kinsey.

But now I have another Hammer book to check out!

Chris

[PNGwynne]

House of Horror is c. 1996, I ordered it decades ago from Westfield Co., with my comics. I have the Roy Ashton Hammer make-up book, too--it's terrific.

[Werewolf]

Cool. Nice to see Dracula 79 getting some love.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Our final installment dropped today. We take a look at the movie that kicked off Hammer Horror...The Curse of Frankenstein with Cushing & Lee!!! Plus, a fun discussion about a bat-crap crazy TV episode from our collective youth: "The Super Friends Meet Frankenstein"!

http://fireandwaterpodcast.com/podcast/super-mates-63-house-of-franklin-stein-part-4/

Chris

[MIB41]

^^^ Great episode Chris! I need to play catch up and work my way back through your previous installments, so please forgive me if my future comments get out of order. Hey! What am I if not out of order? I remember seeing Curse of Frankenstein at a very young age. Maybe seven or eight which, in those days, was pretty young for that material. Hammer was absolutely the adult version of the Universal Monsters with all the graphic gore (and cleavage) Universal seldom recognized. Of course we have to remember too, that by the time Hammer was coming into horror, the Universal Monsters had closed it's doors and was labelled passe' by modern audiences, so there was a convenient vacuum to fill. Isn't it ironic though that those Hammer movies in turn served as a kind of reminder of the old days with Universal which created a ground swell that exploded later in the 60's that lasted until the mid-70's? Just goes to show you how reliable a license can be no matter what the iteration. Ask Batman. But I digress...

Hammer films were so edgy for their time, yet so accessible, it's kind of funny that they slipped through the censors to get to such green and sheltered kids like me. These were not movies I could watch with my parents present and kind of served as my introduction into the "darker" side of life. It certainly introduced new thought processes for an imagination like mine, so whether that was always a wholesome thing, I have to wonder. And initially watching a film like the Curse of Frankenstein actually took some doing. It was an endurance contest which sometimes I couldn't manage. Of course by today's standards it's pretty tame, but for it's day that was pretty straight forward, which was not something that was common in a heavily sanitized society, such as it was.

I found Lee's monster to be quite grotesque as a child. I always felt the Mego figure leaned more on the Hammer sensibilities with the white skin and big eyes than Universal. So whenever I played with my Mego Frankenstein, I always staged a Hammer style of story. It's amazing that figure survived my childhood at all since the Hammer monsters usually met their demise in such gruesome fashion. Was I the only kid who actually deplored Peter Cushing as much as the monster? I always felt like the Hammer films made more of an effort to draw a direct parallel between creator and monster than Universal. With Colin Clive I always felt like his motivations as Dr. Frankenstein were born from that drive to find the answers to life with his creation coming about from unintended circumstances. With Peter Cushing, he seemed all too happy to have a monster of sorts to do his bidding.

And those differences seem to hold true across the board on all Hammer films when contrasting with Universal studios. The Universal monsters all had a degree of pathos to them whereas the Hammer films played to more of a predatory style of scare. Those monsters wanted to be monsters and they were coming for you. Universal characters were reluctant participants and often misunderstood so there was something redeeming to champion on their side and a kind of sadness when they seemingly perished ('seemingly' being the operative word here). I never felt sorry for the demise of any Hammer monster. It was always a relief to see them put down.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I think you hit the nail on the head with Hammer's take on monsters vs. Universal's. The only real exception is Oliver Reed's Werewolf, and the werewolf-like Gorgon and Reptile, although the Gorgon was a possession story, and Megera (why wasn't she just Medusa?) needed to be taken out.

Universal always gave Collin Clive's Frankenstein a pass at the last minute, filming new scenes to show he escaped his just desserts. While obviously Cushing's Baron did escape his grisly fate, the movies do condemn his actions in almost every case. His monster is just an ungodly animal, to show just how far the Baron has gone, vs. Karloff's mentally-challenged child rejected by his parent.

I've always felt like Mego's Frankie had quite a bit of Lee in him too. That yellow pallor and those creamy, nasty eyes really are some nice correlations.

Thanks for listening!

Chris

[MIB41]

My opinion about 'House of Frankenstein' has evolved allot through the years. When I was a kid, I honestly didn't see much of it because it was never a film in heavy rotation like the standards of Frankenstein, Bride, and the Wolfman. In fact when I look at the television listings lovingly compiled by my good friend Dave Conover for the Fright Night television show (which was a staple in Louisville from 1971 to 1975), House only aired once in 1971 and again in 1973.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi4lrz7y-vPAhXE2D4KHc0EDpsQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.williamgirdler.com%2Fkissinger.html&usg=AFQjCNGY5-byEVA0KrkCXLKlsh3ZUdc7sg&sig2=Jl5Rx5XKhAmba1LeKInqIw

It just didn't carry that kind of clout with kids like the origin tales and immediate spin-offs had. I would dare say I probably saw more photo stills from the film in Famous Monsters than I actually did the movie itself back then. And when I think of Glenn Strange as the monster, my childhood memories lean heavily on Abbott and Costello since that was often played on Channel 41 with some degree of regularity on Sunday afternoons. So if I'm being entirely honest here, I would have to say even though Universal Monsters were a major part of my youth, I didn't really get fully acquainted with this particular film (to speak competently about it) until probably sometime in the 80's when cable became all the rage and I was able to watch (and record) blocks of monster movies, often with a host that was offering context. In fact, it wasn't until the movies finally were made available on VHS, that I could finally watch them all IN ORDER and draw a stronger conclusion as to quality and a sense of direction with some of the latter installments. The only two Frankenstein movies I absolutely knew were connected were Frankenstein and Bride. And that's only because they often showed them together or were played enough I was able to associate them in that manner. In the early 70's there was no cable, VHS, internet, or any other method to get much repetition of something you liked. Seeing Frankenstein once a year might have been considered heavy rotation for those times.

So when I finally got to digest House with a number of viewings, allot of things jumped out at me. The first and most enjoyable is the search through the icy catacombs of the castle ruins. THAT is quite honestly my most vivid memory of that film from childhood because it has such a timeless, strangely magical, quality to it. Plus I use to take my AHI Frankenstein and cover him standing up in white sheets during play time to recreate that discovery. In fact, there were a few times when I actually went to the trouble of putting my figure in a huge cup of water and sticking him in the freezer to get the "full effect". I even used some of my dad's shaving cream to get the added effect of snow on his clothes. LOL! Hey it might have been crude, but they always smelled good. But I digress...

As a young adult I thought the plot was pretty convoluted compared to the earlier films. The whole vampire sequence with John Carradine felt a little forced and kind of stuck in there just to say they had Dracula in the line up. But killing him off so early always felt like a strange plot direction in the story. In fact, when Dracula's ring falls off the girl, it had that look like the whole film was ending, then it starts back up again. So the pacing always struck me as uneven to say the least. Carradine did an admirable job as Dracula although having him taken out so early kind of underscored his fill-in status for Legosi. You offered a fun fact on Legosi actually being attached to the project which I never knew. The Arsenic and Old Lace parallel with Karloff is just another piece of tragic irony that seem to once again connect Legosi to his peer.

Speaking of Karloff, he does a descent job at this, although the material is not terribly strong so he has to spend much of his time brooding to up the tension where the script drags considerably. The hunchback and girl story was never something I cared much for. It felt like another contrivance to draw sympathy to a character that oddly looked like Ricky Ricardo with a perm. Damn shame the girl couldn't have been named Lucy. But I thought her little introduction by talking to him partially covered from view leads to a bit of unintended comedy. To see her turned on by his boyish charm only to jerk her head in disgust at seeing the hump on his back is really pretty harsh and way over the top. When she has the chance to take a deep gulp and tell him, " But I like you" there's NO QUESTION that's going to end bad. Of course who knew he would take out his rejection on a poor fella strapped to a table? Didn't see that coming, so there was THAT as a plot twist. Poor Glenn.

With regards to Glenn, he just looks great as the monster in this film. He really has nothing to do in this story, but for me, his look is SO ICONIC, he can pretty much just stand there and it works. Strange is definitely one of those happy accidents that save films like this from being unbearable to watch. Seeing him, Karloff, and Chaney together is pure cinematic gold, even if the story is written on the back of a napkin...used at that.

Lon Chaney Jr. always brought his A game to the Larry Talbot role. I don't know if he was just on another drinking binge when he made these movies, but I certainly believed him when he showed anguish. There is not a actor in the cinematic universe that denotes "hang over" better than Chaney. When that guy runs his fingers through his stringy, oily hair with an expression that best says, "Oh sh*t", he definitely looks like he was on a bender (with consequences) the night before. Keith Richards has nothing on this man. So whether that was great method acting or if he was just living in the moment by being himself, I'm not sure I'll ever get a good answer for that. But his contributions and impact to that role will never be topped. Great episode Chris. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I love the idea of freezing an AHI Frankenstein in ice! Did he survive? Were his joints really loose afterwards?

I pulled the same stung with my Secret Wars Captain America, and oddly, my Super Powers Aquaman. I freed Cap in a hurry by hurling him from a playground hill to the parking lot below. Hey...it worked!

Great observations on the movie. I think HoF still has a lot of the charm of the earlier films, but the slow decline began in the 2nd half of Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man, and culminates in the rather dull and head-scratching House of Dracula. I still like all of these films, but they honestly pale to A&C Meet Frankenstein, which would be the best Monster Mash, even without the comedy.

Great call on Chaney. He really was the Wolf Man in many ways, known to tear up studio buildings and trailers while on a bender. No wonder he essayed that role so well!

Chris

[MIB41]

When I think about "Curse of the Werewolf", it's a odd bird for a number of reasons. In terms of my youth, I can honestly say I only saw still pictures of this film. It just wasn't in rotation like some of the other Hammer films when I was young, so I don't have those nostalgia moments to give it charm and added flavor. I wouldn't see the film in it's entirety until I was in my 20's. From a cosmetic perspective, the movie is glorious looking. But by the time I got to see this film, I had two decades plus of the Lon Chaney Jr. sensibilities, so I was pretty lost on this origin tale. I really couldn't compare it to anything, but did find the visuals fascinating. But unlike Lawrence Talbot, I didn't connect with Oliver Reed nearly as well. And allot of that is probably unfair because I was looking for a Lawrence Talbot type of emotional draw and this story was so different from the pulse of that film. Reed's character had so much intensity and not much in the way of pathos because I couldn't really see a softer side on the level that Chaney brought to his portrayal. The ending was also kind of abrupt and the music almost disconnected to the climax. It was pretty much one shot and he was done. When rolled over he was deceased but still in his current form, so that didn't really leave you with much to reconcile outside it sucked to be him and it was fortunate he was shot. So while visually it was a very entertaining film and takes more of a literary approach, I felt like it never found it's heart and the conflict between man and beast which is, for me, the backbone of any effective werewolf movie. Plus the Werewolf himself was barely in it so that played a prominent role in my opinion when I was younger. Not as much today but I'm a big believer that werewolf films are meant in spirit to be a visual spotlight for the monster. But n terms of cosmetic punch, it certainly carries a strong and effective image.