Later "Universal Horrors"--consensus?

[ctc]

>I've heard Karloff stepped away from the role, partially due to his fear that the character was becoming a prop.

I could see that. The later films were fun, but not the same as the first few. I think it's because they came out so early in the history of film that there was so much they had to do from scratch. Every scene was something new; every camera shot, every line.... Dracula was first, and it suffers for it since it borrows so much technique from live theater. It feels stiff, confined. Frankenstein corrects those problems, making a larger than life, almost surreal film. By the time all the "sons" and "daughers" came to be they'd just about perfected the formula, which still worked but was a great deal more familiar.

Don C.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^I think Universal also realized that children were a large part of the audience for their previous monster films, and aimed the second cylce of movies more at them than they had before. Sure adults could still enjoy them, but the plots were pretty simple, and the logic was often child-like. "Son of Dracula" is actually a pretty adult film though, with it's femme fatale using Dracula to gain immortality for her and her lover.

It's interesting that the Frankenstein Monster's famous arms-forward stumbling walk came about because Lugosi was playing the blind Monster with Ygor's brain, and they totally dropped that plot line from the finished film, and silenced all of Lugosi's Ygor-as-monster dialog.

Chris

[torgospizza]

A slightly on- and off-topic heads up: on Svengoolie tonight, they're showing Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man.

[PNGwynne]

I agree, Son of Dracula & the last Mummy film do have some good moments.

Would you consider late-arrivals Monster on Campus & the Leech Woman as proper Universals? Or do the sci-fi Creature, Metaluna Mutant, & Mole Men tie things up?

[thunderbolt]

Monster on the Campus sure continues the feel of the Universal movies, I'd have to see Leech woman again.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^I need to check these films out. I've never seen either of them. I'm all for any kind of old monster flick.

Chris

[Earth 2 Chris]

I watched the 1943 remake of "Phantom of the Opera" with Claude Rains this weekend. Great film, although a little too heavy on the opera part for me. Rains is great as always, and you still care for him even though he's obviously bat-crap crazy.

It's so obvious that Christine is intended to be the Phantom's daughter. I understand that Universal cut the scene where Raul discovers this from Christine's aunt, because they feared people would think incest was involved, but I didn't get any kind of sexual infatuation there. Maybe because it's somewhat sexually charged in Chaney's version?

This was obviously an A effort for Universal, and it apparently did well for them. It would have been nice to have gotten one monster rally flick in color, just to see what they were all supposed to look like.

Chris

[MIB41]

^I like it. And with shows like Once Upon a Time being a hit, it could work. I've always felt that Larry Talbot emerged as the hero of the Universal films when viewed as a series, and liked how he was so proactive in A&C Meets Frankenstein.

I'm on the hunt for a copy of Jeff Rovin's Wolfman book, that picks up wher A&CMF leaves off. I hear it's pretty good.
Chris

There's actually a whole series of books. I think three or four novels that continue that story line. I've got them all but never got around to reading them. I looked up the Return of the Wolfman paperback on Amazon and about p*ssed myself when I saw the asking prices. Didn't realize there was that kind of demand. Perhaps they should do another printing?

[MIB41]

When I think of the Universal horror films I think of two chapters. The early years when the subject matter was fresh, and the resurgence during the WWII era. The studio was certainly cutting corners in production and script and no longer attracting A-name actors. And maybe that was because the industry had developed a different attitude about the genre by then and didn't have enough faith (or script material) to interest top talent. But you could certainly see a marked decline in the quality of script and the directors involved. I think that's why A&CMF is such a nice parting gift, given it's timeless quality. But in the same breath it also showed you what the industry was thinking about the material. Thank GOD Abbott & Costello were given the treatment (originally entitled "The Brain of Frankenstein"). Although it's always interesting to read how they deplored the movie and thought it was their poorest work. Maybe because they had such free reign to ad lib the material did it become the classic it did?

[Bruce Banner]

Watched "Wayne and Shuster Take an Affectionate Look at the Monsters" the other day, an old CBC show from 1965.
An interesting and light-hearted condensed history of the Universal Monsters and other movies.

[hedrap]

I love all the sequels.

Revenge of the Creature is fantastic.

Back in the 80's, they were attempting to remake Creature for the "new 3D". That remake eventually ended up as Jaws 3D, which is why it has almost the exact same storyline as Revenge.

[Earth 2 Chris]

There's actually a whole series of books. I think three or four novels that continue that story line. I've got them all but never got around to reading them. I looked up the Return of the Wolfman paperback on Amazon and about p*ssed myself when I saw the asking prices. Didn't realize there was that kind of demand. Perhaps they should do another printing?

I've heard Rovin's book is really well done and captures the flavor of the Universal films. On the other hand, the subsequent Dark Horse sequels seem to get panned quite a bit, for mucking with the history and adding too much gore and nastiness. I haven't read any of them yet, so I'm just going by folks on the UMA board.

Chris

[sallie138]

I'm with Madmarva all the way. Those Val Lewton films are mindblowing. I Walked with a Zombie even had legit Haitan terminology and culture in it. Class act.

[HumanWolfman]

love he two House of movies and Son of Drac, and the Mummy ones that were set in Louisiana.

Me too Joe. I love Chaney as Dracula in Son of Dracula. He is superior to Carradine in every way. One of the things that I enjoy about the later Universal movies is that the monsters got way more air time.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I watched Karloff in Val Lewton's "Bedlam" Friday night. A bit slow, but some great performances, and a chilling ending!

Me too Joe. I love Chaney as Dracula in Son of Dracula. He is superior to Carradine in every way. One of the things that I enjoy about the later Universal movies is that the monsters got way more air time.

Son of Dracula is very underrated. Very moody, and the transformation scenes are very nice for the time. Chaney is very intense as the count.
Chris