Later "Universal Horrors"--consensus?

[Earth 2 Chris]

I watched the 1943 remake of "Phantom of the Opera" with Claude Rains this weekend. Great film, although a little too heavy on the opera part for me. Rains is great as always, and you still care for him even though he's obviously bat-crap crazy.

It's so obvious that Christine is intended to be the Phantom's daughter. I understand that Universal cut the scene where Raul discovers this from Christine's aunt, because they feared people would think incest was involved, but I didn't get any kind of sexual infatuation there. Maybe because it's somewhat sexually charged in Chaney's version?

This was obviously an A effort for Universal, and it apparently did well for them. It would have been nice to have gotten one monster rally flick in color, just to see what they were all supposed to look like.

Chris

[Earth 2 Chris]

^I need to check these films out. I've never seen either of them. I'm all for any kind of old monster flick.

Chris

[thunderbolt]

Monster on the Campus sure continues the feel of the Universal movies, I'd have to see Leech woman again.

[PNGwynne]

I agree, Son of Dracula & the last Mummy film do have some good moments.

Would you consider late-arrivals Monster on Campus & the Leech Woman as proper Universals? Or do the sci-fi Creature, Metaluna Mutant, & Mole Men tie things up?

[torgospizza]

A slightly on- and off-topic heads up: on Svengoolie tonight, they're showing Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^I think Universal also realized that children were a large part of the audience for their previous monster films, and aimed the second cylce of movies more at them than they had before. Sure adults could still enjoy them, but the plots were pretty simple, and the logic was often child-like. "Son of Dracula" is actually a pretty adult film though, with it's femme fatale using Dracula to gain immortality for her and her lover.

It's interesting that the Frankenstein Monster's famous arms-forward stumbling walk came about because Lugosi was playing the blind Monster with Ygor's brain, and they totally dropped that plot line from the finished film, and silenced all of Lugosi's Ygor-as-monster dialog.

Chris

[ctc]

>I've heard Karloff stepped away from the role, partially due to his fear that the character was becoming a prop.

I could see that. The later films were fun, but not the same as the first few. I think it's because they came out so early in the history of film that there was so much they had to do from scratch. Every scene was something new; every camera shot, every line.... Dracula was first, and it suffers for it since it borrows so much technique from live theater. It feels stiff, confined. Frankenstein corrects those problems, making a larger than life, almost surreal film. By the time all the "sons" and "daughers" came to be they'd just about perfected the formula, which still worked but was a great deal more familiar.

Don C.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I've heard Karloff stepped away from the role, partially due to his fear that the character was becoming a prop. His prediction slowly became true. It's a shame Strange never got a whole lot to do as the monster, as he had the best look of the bunch, outside of Karloff himself.

Chris

[madmarva]

Yep, that's the plot from his book. It's a fun read for a fan of the films. I think a good TV show runner could take the basic premise, expand it and do something fun with it.

Rovine doesn't do much with the monster, much like Universal after Frankenstein Meets Wolfman. I think you could make him an interesting character, by keeping the pathos of Karloff's portrayal, but educating him like in Shelly's original work and other spinoffs. The monster would be conflicted. He has a big heart, but also this need for revenge against humans who mistreat outcasts. He wants to do what's right, but he still has that murderous streak from that abnormal brain. You could even give him multiple personalities using a mumbo jumbo explanation of the various body parts and brains leaving different imprints on his soul, or something.

[madmarva]

Sorry for the double post

[madmarva]

I know many feel Chaney was miscast as Dracula...and he honestly was. BUT, he did a great job considering

You've got to give Chaney credit for being game for anything and until he started repeating the same performance as flunkies in various westerns, he generally gave solid performances. He was really good in Of Mice and Men and the B-level noir programmers in the Inner Sanctum series are melodramatic but enjoyable for what they were.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^I like it. And with shows like Once Upon a Time being a hit, it could work. I've always felt that Larry Talbot emerged as the hero of the Universal films when viewed as a series, and liked how he was so proactive in A&C Meets Frankenstein.

I'm on the hunt for a copy of Jeff Rovin's Wolfman book, that picks up wher A&CMF leaves off. I hear it's pretty good.

Chris

[madmarva]

While it would probably flop, I'd like to see a TV series based on the old Universal monsters with Larry Talbot chasing Dracula around the world to stop his nefarious plots. Basically, what happened after Dracula and the Wolfman went off that balcony at the end of Abbott and Costello meets Frankenstein.

The monster could be educated and maybe work both sides when it's to his advantage or even be a double agent in Dracula's camp but secretly working against him. Yeah, it's a sophomoric or even childish idea, but I'd like to see it.

The globe-trotting aspect could work in the Creature and the Mummy, Zombies and witches and what not.
They could visit the Island of Lost Souls, run into the Invisible Man, Jeykl and Hyde. Revisit character like Renfield, Fritz, Ygor, Maleva or their descendants.

I'd make it kind of soapy, but with action. Dracula would be a J.R. type, evil but magnetic. Talbot more of a Bobby Ewing type, too good hearted for his own good. One step behind but always struggling forward.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Universal missed out by not making another Wolfman solo film in my opinion.

Agreed. Frankenstein Meets... is really like a mash-up of an "A" Wolf Man sequel, and a "B" Frankenstein.

I like "Ghost", but the fact that the monster wants the little girl's brain is just...baffling. It's like no one at Universal understood if your brain went, YOU WENT WITH IT!!!

I know many feel Chaney was miscast as Dracula...and he honestly was. BUT, he did a great job considering. Kind of like Michael Keaton as Batman. Had no business in the role, but once he was there, he made it work. I was watching the Chaney Jr. bio-doc on the Universal Blu-Ray set just last night, and some believed his very physical, threatening performance suggested some of Christopher Lee's take, 15 years later. I can see that.

The Val Lewton stuff is certainly superior in mood and sophistication to the 2nd horror cycle at Universal. The Body Snatcher alone is one of the best movies of the period, and perhaps Karloff's best performance. I LOVE that movie.

Chris

[thunderbolt]

love he two House of movies and Son of Drac, and the Mummy ones that were set in Louisiana.