UFO - over Cardiff Part II

[AUSSIE-Rebooted-AMM]

OK. . .so without debate as to the scientific nature of whether there are or aren't Ufo's visiting us. . .like in ToyStalkers thread. . . who believes ;
1) Aliens are out there. . . they just haven't visited yet.
2) Aliens are here. . .and they keep leaving bits of glass in my left foot.
3) No Aliens, no flying saucers.
4) Yes - there is something visiting us. . .but it isn't from outer space.
5) I've seen one - and am convinced.
6) Other

For me. . .I think it has to be number 1. Life is somewhere else. . . but it might just be a pile of Jelly, or existed at a time not overlapping with our own, and not likely to have visited. If something is visiting. . . perhaps it may be from our future rather than external to us. . . but I doubt it??

[darklord1967]

If something is visiting. . . perhaps it may be from our future rather than external to us. . . but I doubt it??

Hmmm, you're suggesting time traveling scientists / explorers who are using time-warp technology to visit their own past history (our "present").

Interesting theory, and one that I've considered myself.

If you are correct, and the visitors in question are human, then they have evolved into a very different form (short, hairless, large eyes, and grey complexion) than our present one.

The implications of their appearence seems to suggest a planet of origin that is perpetually dark and with a different gravitational influence than Earth's.

If these visitors are human time travelers from Earth's far, distant future, then something RADICAL has happened to our planetary environment to cause such an extreme evolution.

Very interesting.

[AUSSIE-Rebooted-AMM]

Hey DarkLord1967 - I was just interested in sort of canvasing what beleifs are out there in the community, what the balance is of believers to non-believers - sort of poll like - not position based.

I probably don't believe in the greys so much, so those factors may not be applicable to my belief system. . . if I have one. I am probably more undecided with a leaning away from regular visitations of any sort. But intrigued by credible accounts from Pilots/Astronauts/ and the recent Cardiff event.

[Hector]

Yes, I believe there are habitable planets with intelligent lifeforms throughout the universe, as a matter of fact, I think there are millions such planets.

Here on Earth?

No.

Why?

We are too far apart, even for a civilization a million years ahead of us.

We can't reach them, they can't reach us, simple as that.

[Hector]

Time travel to the past is practically impossible.

Time travel to the future not so impossible.

[Vortigern99]

I'm with Hector. I select option #1.

[Hector]

A buddy of mine wrote this, I copied and pasted it:

What is beyond space? To answer that, I might refer you to an excellent book by Brian Greene called The Elegant Universe. In this, which also could be called advanced physics for dummies, Greene quotes many of the modern physicists of the String Theory and M Theory in explaining the universe.

Summing it up, if the String Theory is right, and that depends a lot on the theories of the M Theory in being correct, there could be as many as 11 dimensions (or unlimited if Edward Witten is correct) of what caused the Big Bang Theory. Our universe is part of a larger dimensional tug of war between other dimensions, and when these dimensions overlap, this results in what we know of as a "big bang". The frequency of these overlappings, (read Paul Townsend, or Michael Duff) could be fairly rythymic or infrequent, and could be as close - as measured in time, a poor gauge - as 15 - 30 billion years.

Now this is significant because the furtherist we have been able to ascertain time is 15 billion years, and in an expanding universe, we could not see or judge such frequency. But if it is true, then what is beyond space is simply a never ending circle of universes 15 - 30 billion light years apart that cannot be seen or detected.

What makes it even more complicated is that if there is interdeminsional big bangs, then multiply the explosions times 11 to the 11th power times an unknown number of interdimensional "overlappings".

That means if the M theory is correct - and the math is there to substantiate it - there is an infinite number of universes stretching forever. The question of what is beyond space is moot. If there is no infinte number, then everything will collapse within itself in a "big crucnch" and start again. This raises the question of has this ever happened, and if so, how many times?


The universe is simply too big to just have little 'ol us, lol.

[toystalker]

no disrespect to anyones religious beliefs here...

but we are all aliens... we crashed onto this rock from another place, so if we came from out there there must be other forms of spore out there some place, they think they have found ice on mars.... where there is water there will be lifeform

[darklord1967]

Yes, I believe there are habitable planets with intelligent lifeforms throughout the universe, as a matter of fact, I think there are millions such planets.

Here on Earth?

No.

Why?

We are too far apart, even for a civilization a million years ahead of us.

We can't reach them, they can't reach us, simple as that.


Time travel to the past is practically impossible.

Time travel to the future not so impossible.

I'd say my belief system is firmly entrenched in option #6 which I will classify as

6) Extraterrestrials exist and have been visiting this planet for thousands upon thousands of years. AND (ready for this?) they probably had a hand in the genetic development of intelligent human life here on Earth.

Of the (likely) many forms of intelligent life that exist on other planets in the universe, Earth has probably only been visited by astronauts from only two or three of those extraterrestrial civilizations (if that many).


HECTOR ... mi hermano... I respectfully disagree with your assessments of the great distances involved for visitation to this planet by an extraterrestrial race.

If you are dealing with space and time in a linear way, then, yes, your assessment is quite logical and reasonable... as conventinal wisdom suggests.

However, if space and time are linked (as Albert Einstein demonstrated) in a higher dimensional plane than the one we occupy and are familiar with, and if a civilation were advanced enough to gain access to this higher dimension plane so that they could warp and control it, then such a trip would be totally possible... and it would be done (from their relative point of view) at a conventional rate of speed that allows for the laws of physics NOT to be broken.

Basically, I am suggesting a space/time dimensional realm where the entity which we refer to as "time" runs at a different rate than it does here in our own dimensional reality. In this hyper realm, time is "compressed" right along with space. So a destination that is 90 light years away is just as easily three minutes away... even traveling at a "conventional" speed.

A traveler technologically advanced enough to punch a hole out of our dimensional realm and enter this "hyper-space" realm could easily get around this problem of great distance limitation.

As to your views on time travel:

As far as we know, no one has as of yet artificially travelled through time, so all theories regarding its implications are purely conjecture at this point.

However...

It seems to me that if you allow that time travel into the future is "... not so impossible..." then, logically you are viewing time (and all of the events of the universe within) as FIXED and unchangeable. Certainly you see the future that way, because you consider it a tangible "place / time/ reality" that exists solidly somewhere in space/time.

I DON'T necessarily disagree with you.

But consider this: If it is true that future reality is fixed, exisits, and can be travelled to (or "visited"), then that means that the "past" and the "present" points in time are ALSO fixed and unchangeable... and therefore visitable.

After all, there was a point in time when "the past" or "the present" were both considered "the future".

Therefore, any technology that allows you to visit a fixed "future" should allow you to visit a fixed "past" as well.

My basic point is this: As far as I can see (cosmically-speaking) there is NO SUCH THING as the "past" the "present" or the "future". These are all merely terms created in human language to describe the occurence of one EVENT relative to the occurence of ANOTHER.

So "TIME" is relative.
It is relative to the energy expendature of the observer.
It is relative to the speed that the observer is traveling.
it is relative to the distance traversed by the observer.
and it is relative to itself (another point in "time" that you are contrasting against the one you "currently" occupy).

Look at it this way: There will ALWAYS be a specific point in time that you can referr to as the "past", the "present", or the "future".

But that moment in time is only labeled appropriately, based on the moment in time that YOU currently occupy.

For example: Cosmically speaking, the terrible events of 9/11 are SIMULTANEOUSLY the "past", the "present" AND the "future". But which label is appropriate to describe that date is dependent on which time period YOU (the observer) occupy relative to 9/11.


The not-so-impossible time-traveling into the "future" that you describe implies an artificial instantaneous "skipping over" of ALL the future events and occurrences that (when strung together) make up the "reality" of that future target "date".

From our "present" perspective, those collective events have not yet occurred, so the specific circumstances of that (future target date) "reality" do not yet exist... again from OUR "present" perpective.

However, if time-travel into the future is possible (and I believe it might very well be), then the existence of that future reality is just as SOLID as the existence of our present reality... and consequently just as SOLID as the "past" reality... REGARDLESS OF THE LINEAR STRING OF EVENTS LEADING TO IT (OR AWAY FROM IT).

Travelling temporally in one direction (by artificial means) should not preclude you from travelling temporally in the opposite direction.

As we see and experience in the 3 dimensional world around us, this freedom of travel exists for our convenience spacially. In a fourth dimensional space/time realm, I see no reason why this principal is not also true temporally. In that realm, where space and time are linked, the location of the "past" relative to the location of the "future" is the same thing as saying the location of New York relative to the location of California within 3 dimensional space. You can travel spacially in either direction to visit either city destination. The same should hold true 4th dimensionally for temporal destinations.

The 4th dimensional realm of space/time does not have a concious perference as to what point in time is considered "the future" and is therefore eligible for artificial visitation. Likewise, the 3rd dimensional realm, makes no perference for a point in space (say New York City) versus another spacial point (say California). Both are equally eligible for visitation.

If you could visit this "future" that you refer to, then a trip back to your "present" would constitute a trip backward in time. In short, a trip into the "past"... relatively speaking of course.




Gosh... it's a good thing I don't get high or drunk. I'm not sure my head could hold all this crazy stuff in it without simply exploding.

[Bo8a_Fett]

We're all descended from alians ...in fact they were the Golgafrinchans and arrived in Ark B and wiped out the real earthlings.

[Adam West]

I'm agnostic regarding aliens....I pick #3.

As a caveat, I am a christian who firmly believes in Intelligent Design. I have spent the better part of my adult life reading as much as I can, challenging my own belief system, and have considered every possible explanation and every time I get back to the inevitable question "How did we get here", I keep arriving at the same conclusion.

I do believe in the Big Bang and I do believe in Darwinism to some extent...however, the theory has too many holes in it with no satisfying scientific answer.

I do respect other's opinion here but the thread is really just a matter of opinion since nobody can prove or disprove anything regarding aliens, UFO's, or God for that matter. The best thing for anyone serious about the subject is to read as much as you can on the subject, consider every single possibility, and draw your own conclusion based on what makes the most sense to you.

[JDeRouen]

We're all just a sim game, played for some teenager's amusement. Lord help us when he gets tired and moves on to something else...

[darklord1967]

Adam, you're right that nothing can be proved or disproved regarding the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life and its visitation to this planet... (unless of course you happen to be a top secret military scientist with access to recovered crashed alien spacecraft wreckage and preserved dead extraterrestrial bodies.)

However, one thing that (in my opinion) is certain and not really open to interpretation is nature's tendency toward endless diversification and variation.

I find it impossible to believe that said diversification is limited only to this planet. In my view, that is simply not logical.

I too have a strong belief in intelligent design. But I do NOT believe that faith in the existence of that intelligent designer (whomever you deem that to be), needs to be mututally exclusive from a belief in the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life, and the notion of its possible visitation to this planet.

Both can be true.

Furthermore, as a Christian, I am also quite convinced that the "designer" of all things in the known and unknown universe would have a tendency toward infinite combinations of infinte creations.

The evidence of the millions of different life-forms living on this planet alone support this idea on an inter-galactic / universal scale.

The ongoing battle between science and religious faith seems (at least to me) to be a pointless one. There is more than enough room for both to co-exist simultanously within a logical framework... if you allow for it.

[The Phantom]

What about the theory that they have been here for centuries,living in our oceans. There have been many sightings of USO's, and the Navy is just as closed mouth about it as the Air Force and NASA is about UFO's.
Who knows?
I'll believe it when I see it.

[Mego Milk]

They're all SKRULLS!

...or Ewoks.