The stupidity of some people is unbelievable.

[huedell]

1. I hardly call it humiliating. It's not like I made her walk down the street naked
or anything. I simply made it understood what she did was about as dumb as could be
and I hoped she was punished for it. Actually I thought I showed tremendous control.

More control would've been chastising by telling her how unsafe it was for doing what
she did sans cheap taunting insults.

"Humiliation?" Well, I was actually using/addressing a word from Hulk's post---but anyway---
you could've "put her on the spot" in the same way without the "taunting insults"
and gotten your point across a lot clearer....with the same force.

If I had punched her would it be in your opinion that I should be given a light punishment as to not further damage my already fragile psyche?? I'm obviously insane and should be handled with care. I hope nobody yells at me. I would be humiliated.

Um...the "punching" example is pretty extreme....and unnecessary...this subject isn't
about violence towards a child abuser --- and I'm not going there.

2. Screwing up her behavior worse?? She left a 1 year old in a car to go in the
post office and took another kid with her!!

My point was you could screw up her behavior worse by taunting her with insults
and losing your point (an important point) on her in the process because of that....
better your words should actually "sink in" with her rather than bounce off & away.

[Vortigern99]

Megocrazy was right to rebuke the woman, IMO, but perhaps he was a wee bit harsh with his exact choice of words. Surely simply bringing the matter to the woman's attention, in front of a number of onlookers, and having a policeman question her were compelling enough to prevent her (one would hope) from repeating her mistake.

And surely it was that -- a mistake by an absent-minded person -- and not something that is "unforgiveable" or worthy of criminal prosecution, especially given that the child was okay and, as grayhank noted, it was probably around 50 or 60 degrees outside.

[livnxxxl]

I think that anyone (I do not care who they are) that leaves a kid or an animal in a car locked up in extreme weather conditions (if even for a couple of minutes) is a total blittering idiot. These type of people do not deserve to have a kid or animal in their possession to begin with. There needs to be some kind of punishment so that it does not happen again. Little slaps on the hand does not cut it as far as punishment is concerned. Something of substance needs to be done in order to get the point acrossed to these individuals that this just should not happen. Period!

[grayhank]

Deleted

[ctc]

>There's no question the woman needs counseling if she's doing stuff like this.

I dunno.... I don't think there's actually anything wrong with people like this.... not in the clinical sense. But ALL the people sited in the examples here are afflicted with a lot of short-sightedness. It's a pretty common problem; and there ARE cures for it. (We use e'm all the time when training the new recruits.) I think public chastisement (even RUDE public castisement) is a good one. Maybe, MAYBE she'll remember the jerk that yelled at her the last time she left junior in the car and won't do it again; even if it's just 'cos she's afraid of another jerk yelling at her and not 'cos she can cognate WHY leaving a kid alone in a car is a bad idea.

Realisticly, no. Even after you went of on her she probably dismissed it all by thinking you and the cop are just being mach pinheads 'cos she KNOWS she didn't do anything wrong. That's how most people work: THEY didn't do anything wrong, YOU'RE the one being unreasonable. (We get THAT from the new recruits a lot too, but only once per course.)

>What kind of an idiot leaves a baby in a car unattended?

Whenever I read stuff like this it makes me wonder HOW the idiot gene is getting handed down to each new generation. Even if "Idiocracy" was right; you think the stupid would be dropping like flies.

But maybe not:

http://www.seanbaby.com/stupid/sarcasm.htm

Mind the language; but he's got some good points....

>So if stupidity were a crime wouldn't we all be locked up?

Sometimes, as I go about my day I wonder if this hasn't already happened.....

>Common sense comes from learning by our mistakes.

Keyword: learn. That's where the breakdown comes in. People DON'T learn from their mistakes, usually due to the circumstances I sited earlier.

>you can't change the laws to reflect against something that "might" happen.

True; and I don't think any of the examples cited here warrant jail time or anything. They're not criminals, they're just thoughtless. But I DO think SOMETHING needs to be done. A good down-dress seems appropriate.

Don C.

[livnxxxl]

So if stupidity were a crime wouldn't we all be locked up?

No, I do not believe that everyone would be locked up. Not everyone is stupid. IMO There are those that do absolutely stupid things like the above for mentioned and then there are those of us who actually exercise common sense. Not to say that we all do not make mistakes at some point or time in our lives. For it is human to error. No one is perfect. Some of us of course may like to think we are at times though. There are various degrees of mistakes. This issue being a big one putting a child's life in jeopardy.

If there was some form of punishment and I am not talking about locking someone up necessarily, but some kind of substance as real punishment such as a fine with mandatory schooling or something to make the offender think twice before attempting to do something like that again? Perhaps something to show that the said person is incompetent of being in control of a child or a pet. Something a bit more than an equivelant to a speeding ticket warning maybe. Lets face it there needs to be a better punishment here than letting a person go with with mere warning or just a slap on the hand for an offense such as this. This is a serious issue. A good example would be a child offender. That is something that is not taking lightly by the laws. Wouldn't it be offending a child by leaving them in a parked, locked car in extreme weather conditions? Neither one of us were there obviously so we do not know of all of the circumstances that surround this issue. I am basing my thoughts on the evidence that has been given in the original thread.

And who get's to make that determination whether someone is stupid or not and to what degree?

Initially I believe that this would be law enforcements decision to determine if this was something stupid that broke the law. There are also Psychiatrist's that could help treat the person if need be. Ultimately, if the case ended up going as far as the court room it would then be a Judge's final decision in a court of law. Just as it is in our society now.

Doesn't that then go against our very constitution and instead of being a free thinking society we become something more of a facist country without rights?

I do not think so. We are all free to think what we like. However when doing the act it is not longer thinking as the act is in motion. You may have taken my post out of context to make you think that was the case regarding going against our constitution.

I think the laws you are asking for are already in place...it's called involuntary manslaughter. If somebody causes somebody else harm in an unreasonable fashion such as leaving an infant in a car and the child dies, then yes by all means have them arrested and charged.

I agree that there are laws already in place for AFTER something like this becomes a tragedy. Why do we always have to wait for something to become a tragedy? Why can't we be proactive instead of always being reactive?

People are not born with common sense. Common sense comes from learning by our mistakes. Unfortunately some of those mistakes have to be learned the hard way.

I agree with you on this part for the most part as this much is true. However, We do not always have to make a mistake to learn from a mistake. Most of us are intelligent enough as adults to know right from wrong. This is why good schooling so important growing up. This issue was clearly 100% in the wrong.

Just another example: If someone took a gun into or near a school campus. Does it mean that they were going to use the gun in the school? Not necessarily. Although they should not have a gun near a school in the first place.

[huedell]

Originally Posted by livnxxxl:

No, I do not believe that everyone would be locked up.
Not everyone is stupid. IMO There are those that do absolutely stupid things like the above for mentioned and then there are
those of us who actually exercise common sense. Not to say that we all do not make mistakes at some pount or time in our
lives. For it is human to error. No one is perfect. Some of us of course may like to think we are at times though. There are
various degrees of mistakes. This issue being a big one putting a child's life in jeopardy.

Exactly livnxxxl ---- this is the extreme of stupidity---- you do NOT
INTENTIONALLY leave a small child alone---- EVER

Jail time? That's debatable---but I strongly believe a solid punishment should be levied.

[grayhank]

Deleted

[monkey tennis]

I see stupid parents all the time. At my station there will be the parents that remember to put their bags and themselves on a train no problem, then they turn around as the door closes to see their children that they have left on the platform.
Or on the crossing outside I'll see parents push their childs buggy into the middle of the road even when the lights are green making cars slam on their breaks.
There should be some kind of I.Q. test that sells with pregnancy test.

[Chris DVM]

Hey,
Interesting discussion. However, I really think that many of the disagreements over whether Megocrazy went too far in his language can be traced to those who have kids vs. those who don't.
Now before I get lambasted, let me explain. Before I had kids, I never had a problem a) watching movies where kids are possessed/evil/in danger, b) watching Law and Order specials where kids are hurt/killed and c) reading stories about kids being hurt. I would feel bad, show other people and exclaim how horrible, then go on.
Then I had my first child. Boy, did my world change. Suddenly, I would get almost phycially ill when these things would pop up. I have to change the channel, have to put the magazine down, have to avoid those kinds of movies. I just cannot do it anymore.
Sure, you don't have to have kids to feel this way. And, obviously, having kids doesn't ensure you will feel this way either, hence the subject of this thread. However, for me and many other parents that I talk to, having children really flipped on a switch in our brain that makes us much more sensitive to these things - I immediately imagine MY kids in this situation and almost throw up.
When I was 17 I half stood up on a roller coaster at Six Flags. Got a huge rush from it. When the car pulled back into the station, the gate attendant pushed the bar down, stopping me from getting out, and berated me in front of everyone for doing this. To this day when I think of that I feel guilty and small - and I have never done it again. Public humiliation worked wonders to change my behavior. Did I get hurt physically? No. Did I get kicked out of the park or thrown in jail? No. But did I ever do it again? NO.
I don't care if it is 40 degrees outside, something needed to be said. The problem is if that you do it when it is 40 and it is OK, then the next time you will do it at 50, then 60, and so forth. Heck, what is 10 degrees?
Everyone does stupid things in there life. If there are no consequences, you are more than likely to do it again. Rational people will stop when there are consequences that they can feel (humiliated, arrested, hurt, etc.). Those who continue to do things even in the face of consequences need to have priveleges taken away, because they obviously lack the ability to understand their behavior. Perfect example - drunk driving. Your second drunk driving? Loose your license for 5 years - PERIOD. If after the first you did not learn how serious the problem is, then you can take a bus for a while until you do.
Was the language Megocrazy used too much? Maybe. Will the Grandmother ever do that again. Most likely not. Case closed.
Noticing a child locked in a car - $0
Saying something to someone to get the child safe - $0
Changing someones behavior to ensure that the child NEVER gets locked in a car unattended again - PRICELESS!!
Chris DVM

[Dave Mc]

Wow. I'm not sure why I'm still amazed at people, but that's amazing. My son is 9, and I still can't let him sit in the car unattended while I run into the library to put some books in the drop box, a 30 second operation and he's old enough not to fall for any "here's some candy kid" kind of tricks. But leaving a baby... that's just insane.

[monkey tennis]

I wouldn't even leave my dog alone in the car, I'd come back only to find that the inside of the car would be stinking, chewed and wrecked

[Hulk]

From the CDC...

Even in cool temperatures, cars can heat up to dangerous temperatures very quickly. Even with the windows cracked open, interior temperatures can rise almost 20 degrees Fahrenheit within the first 10 minutes. Anyone left inside is at risk for serious heat-related illnesses or even death. Children who are left unattended in parked cars are at greatest risk for heat stroke, and possibly death.

Do Not Leave Children in Cars




And a study from Stanford about children dying in cars even on relatively cool days



PARKED CARS GET DANGEROUSLY HOT, EVEN ON COOL DAYS, STANFORD STUDY FINDS - Office of Communications Public Affairs - Stanford University School of Medicine



So the high temps in Massachusetts are in the mid sixties this week. The child might not have died the day Chuck said something. From his account, it was more than 15 minutes in that car (which he didn't know at the time, it could have been longer as far as he knew), and the heat could easily have risen to the mid eighties or even nineties in that time under the right conditions. Maybe he should only have said something if the temperatures had been in the 70's or 80's? That's not even getting into the other dangers involved with leaving a child unattended in a car.



I stand by my opinion that the public embarrassment this lady might have suffered may be the only way someone that ignorant will change their behavior. Don't like it, fine, be the guy who looks the other way. I'm content knowing there are people like Chuck out there willing to speak their mind, even at the risk of embarrassing Granny.

[mitchedwards]

Congrats, on taking action. Most folks do not want to get involved and would have turned a blind eye.

I swear you would think after hearing about all the deaths occurring from children left alone in cars, or even the chance of child abduction, these people would get a clue.

[huedell]

Hulk Says:

Don't like it, fine, be the guy who looks the other way. I'm content knowing
there are people like Chuck out there willing to speak their mind, even at the risk of
embarrassing Granny.

It seems you might addressing my post(s)---and if so, it seems you are
misunderstanding them.

If not, I apologize.

This is not an issue of me saying to "look the other way" or "not embarass granny"
---its an issue of me saying not be so angrily spewing insults that it taints the message
you're sending.

I explained that three times over in more detail in my other posts Paul---again, if you
weren't addressing me in the first place, I apologize.

You can "speak your mind" any time you want (cue the National Anthem), but
if you're gonna waste your breath---you might want to "think" before you "speak"
and make the best use of your effort....if not, you're shortchanging all involved:
---you, the one you're chastising, and the unfortunate child victim.