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**wayne foundation 07** · Dec 7, '12, 6:15 PM

thats kind of shocking. Almost like a curse it seems.

**BlackKnight** · Dec 7, '12, 6:23 PM

I wrote a comment in a Different thread, I'll write it here too .
I think that Award , Has Become a serious Joke.
Perhaps RG3, And Everyone After Him, can Bring it Back to some sorta Meaning...
But it looks like Good Old Cam Newton Bombed Out.
Bradford is Just Too Inconsistant, and is really only a Blimp Fading on a Radar.
Tebow's Career is now a Joke, Because of the Jets inability to understand how to use the Guy.
And Nobody Else on that List Even Matters.
Sure Bush has a Ring Already ...., But will he get 1 in Miami ? Probably Not.
Again...., This Award Needs to mean something Again ..., Perhaps RG3 is Magical. But when a Guy Gets Picked 3rd Round, 75th Pic and has more Touch Downs than Him ..., It just fuels my Thoughts on the Award.

**megomania** · Dec 7, '12, 6:26 PM

Not a curse, just a fact that College success does not neccesarily translate to NFL success. Particularly QB's. Go further back than 2001...Gino Toretta...Andre Ware...Chris Weinke...Danny Wuerfell (or Danny Awful). The worst period seemed to be between 1989 when Ware won it and 2007 when Tebow won it. Prior to 1989 most of the winners were RB's - between '73 and '88 only two QBs won the award - and they are just more successful than QB's who are asked to be the face of a horrible franchise or a team takes a flyer on a Heismann winning QB and they just turn out to not be very good. Plus offenses in college evolved into just throwing it 50x a game and that's not what they do in the NFL (for the most part).

Not at all interested in this years finalists...

-Chris

**toys2cool** · Dec 7, '12, 6:38 PM

It's a college award not an NFL award.. It's more of stats award, the NFL is way harder and not all college teams are loaded like they would be in the NFL so players look way better....

It is what it is, no one drafts anyone because they won the award..I'm sure it helps , but you get drafted for how you perform in combines

Dolphins game may look empty but they sell out every game if not they'd be blacked out and we haven't one of those in a while..it just gets super hot and every chooses to go inside, I know cause I do it

**megomania** · Dec 7, '12, 7:00 PM

Originally posted by toys2cool

It's a college award not an NFL award.. It's more of stats award, the NFL is way harder and not all college teams are loaded like they would be in the NFL so players look way better....

It is what it is, no one drafts anyone because they won the award..I'm sure it helps , but you get drafted for how you perform in combines

Dolphins game may look empty but they sell out every game if not they'd be blacked out and we haven't one of those in a while..it just gets super hot and every chooses to go inside, I know cause I do it

I'd be hard pressed to believe Gino Toretta got drafted because he did well in the combine. Trust me - he had a cup of coffee with the Seahawks...he was horrible. QB's get drafted all the time just because they won the Heisman. Tim (cough) Tebow (cough) is a recent example.

-Chris

**Marvelmania** · Dec 7, '12, 7:01 PM

15 years from now broke and working at a car wash somewhere

**toys2cool** · Dec 7, '12, 8:37 PM

Originally posted by megomania

I'd be hard pressed to believe Gino Toretta got drafted because he did well in the combine. Trust me - he had a cup of coffee with the Seahawks...he was horrible. QB's get drafted all the time just because they won the Heisman. Tim (cough) Tebow (cough) is a recent example.

-Chris

naw you're talking about 20+ years ago, things were different, QB's were stiffs pretty much....Tebow's a great athlete and 80% of people believed he'd be a better fullback or TE and I bet he'd be pretty good at that...and he can still play QB just not the style he's been given at NY

**BlackKnight** · Dec 7, '12, 9:06 PM

Tebow is very Atheltic.
it's the people that tell him what to do ..., thats the Problem.
He's got the Heart, He needs a Master.

**madmarva** · Dec 7, '12, 9:38 PM

Toys2cool hit the nail on the head in saying the Heisman is a college award for achievement in that season. It's not a predictor for future success in the NFL or anything else for that matter. It's a reward for the season just past.

A guy can be a great player in high school, but not cut in on the college level and the same from college to pro. So I really don't think it's odd that Heisman winners aren't always great pros.

Also, it may sound trite or silly when the winner says the Heisman is really a team award, but it truly is. Great players around a quarterback or running back can lift him to heights he wouldn't achieve otherwise. Guys like Torretta, Ingram, the USC and Oklahoma quarterbacks and many others were all good college players but their success was dependent on the talents of the teammates, coaches and the systems they worked in. Any good quarterback is going to excel at Oklahoma because of the system, coaching and talent. Same with a running back at Alabama. The Tide is always so dominant up front and under Saban the starting back is going to get plenty of carries but also plenty or rest because of the team's overall dominance and solid backups, which keeps the starter healthy and fresh. Trent Richardson was a more talented back than Ingram at Alabama, but the Tide went undefeated when Ingram won the award. The team pushed Ingram to the Heisman. Same thing can be said for many Heisman winners over the last 40 years.

It's also a highly political popularity contest which ESPN dotes on attempting to control. It's ridiculous that it's basically become a quarterback and running back award with few players at other positions given anything but token recognition. I'm definitely not a Notre Dame fan but would love it if Manti Te'o would win it.

I had a Heisman vote from 1994-2009 when I was the beat writer and later sports editor/columnist covering the Arkansas Razorbacks for a small paper in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Voters are selected by a regional Heisman coordinator and once the vote is given the person basically has it until he or she gives it up. I gave up my vote when I moved from sports to news in November of 2009, but I could have kept it if I had wanted to.

Most voters are legitimate and take the designation/honor(?) seriously, but some don't. There are many more voters in the East than any other region because of population and larger media markets, which is odd since the Midwest, South and Southwest actually dominate the world of college football.

Another thing is that there are no truce instructions from the Downtown Heisman Club about how to vote. You just vote for three players whom you feel are the "Most Oustanding Players" in college football. There are no other qualifiers, but for whatever reason the award has boiled down to what it is today. I do think ESPN and other national media outlets shape the vote to a great degree because of their influence and by talking about the award basically any time they opine about college football.

Players are publicized for months by their schools but one mediocre performance in September can exclude a kid from actually having a chance to win.

One voter in my state actually said he sent his vote in a week prior to the end of the season because he didn't believe it was fair for a player's performance in one game to give him an advantage over another player whose season ended the week before. That's asinine, IMO. Arguably, Doug Flutie is one of the most well known Heisman winners of the modern era, and while he had been a great player his entire senior season, he sealed the deal on winning the award not only with one performance, but one hail Mary pass for the winning TD in BC's upset of Miami.

So, the Heisman is really just an arbitrary award in many ways because each voter brings their own set of rules to the table when filling out the ballot. The only saving grace is that there is a large number of voters so the truly odd votes just float to the wayside.

**toys2cool** · Dec 7, '12, 9:52 PM

^^^^Great info bro

**BlackKnight** · Dec 7, '12, 9:58 PM

But with all the Fame, Fortune, Draft Pick Placement, and Ultimately Cash that's Involved for Winning Such an Award .... I think it's Silly to Just call this a College Award. People get Rich, and are promised to be "Somebody" Because of this. They Need to be something in the NFL, If they Win this.... or forever be considered a Joke.

**spacecaps** · Dec 7, '12, 10:14 PM

Lets not get nuts about RG3 yet. Yes he good but the guy hasn't won anything yet and the way he plays, he's one bad hit from a serious injury that could alter his career Bo Jackson style.

**Random Axe** · Dec 7, '12, 10:40 PM

^^^Griffen hasn't won or acheived anything yet, just a bunch of hype. He's good and will, IMO, be an outstanding QB and leader for the next decade. However, nothing is promised to him, and ALL players are one bad hit from retirement.

This POY award thing goes for basketball as well. Lot's of Naismith and Wooden award winners have gone on to have absolutely no pro career to speak of. My favorite college player ever, Calbert Cheaney, is a prime example. He won every possible award his senior year and is still the reigning Big Ten career scoring leader. He was a complete player and perfect leader. That all ended after he was drafted and became a very, very average NBA forward. Danny Manning, Danny Ferry, Lionel Simmons, Christian Laetner, Antawn Jamison and Ralph Sampson all come to mind and all failed to make an impact at the next level.

College awards are not a perfect indicator of professional success, but it's amazing how little Heisman winners do succeed. Jason is right about the award affecting draft status, it does matter to a lot of NFL GM's. Tebow should never have been drafted before the fourth round, Denver totally screwed that up and unfairly and instantly put Tim in a negative spotlight he neither asked for or deserved. I just find great humor in the current status of the most recent recipients.

**megomania** · Dec 8, '12, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by Random Axe

^^^Griffen hasn't won or acheived anything yet, just a bunch of hype. He's good and will, IMO, be an outstanding QB and leader for the next decade. However, nothing is promised to him, and ALL players are one bad hit from retirement.

This POY award thing goes for basketball as well. Lot's of Naismith and Wooden award winners have gone on to have absolutely no pro career to speak of. My favorite college player ever, Calbert Cheaney, is a prime example. He won every possible award his senior year and is still the reigning Big Ten career scoring leader. He was a complete player and perfect leader. That all ended after he was drafted and became a very, very average NBA forward. Danny Manning, Danny Ferry, Lionel Simmons, Christian Laetner, Antawn Jamison and Ralph Sampson all come to mind and all failed to make an impact at the next level.

College awards are not a perfect indicator of professional success, but it's amazing how little Heisman winners do succeed. Jason is right about the award affecting draft status, it does matter to a lot of NFL GM's. Tebow should never have been drafted before the fourth round, Denver totally screwed that up and unfairly and instantly put Tim in a negative spotlight he neither asked for or deserved. I just find great humor in the current status of the most recent recipients.

Sampson had injury problems but the guy did avg 20/10 his first three years. Plus his buzzer beater against the Lakers might be in the top 5 most important shots in NBA history. If he doesn't make that shot to deny the Lakers at least back to back championships they might have won three or four in a row. While he wasn't the best to ever play as was predicted, he's the only one I'd argue on your list that did have an impact his first 3-5 years.

-Chris

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Recent Heisman Trophy Winners - Where are they now?

Recent Heisman Trophy Winners - Where are they now?

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