A Christmas Carol talk

[Mikey]

I talked about this a few years ago but that thread didn't go anywhere.

Maybe i'll try it again

Mods - this thread is not ment to be religious -- but if you deem it to be, feel free to delete it

Ok,

As a kid (and today too) I could never understand why people see "joy" in A Christmas Carol.

It's basically about a guy that doesn't harm anyone and is threatened to celebrate Christmas or else he'll be sent to hell.

On top of that, he clearly changes his ways only because he dont want to go to hell.

I never got the joy in it all --- especially the end.

It's no secret Scrooge is faking his joy --- I would too if I had a gun pointed at my head

[megojim]

Interesting . . . . Don't see it that way at all, I see a man who knows he's had the ability to help others but chose instead to ignore what was going on around him while continuing to line his own pockets. When presented with a birds eye view of his selfishness, Like many, he has chosen to repent and begin a new life of service to others.

[megomania]

Watch 'Scrooged' with Bill Murray.

[madmarva]

The visitations of the ghosts remind him of the times in his life when he had joy and when he lost joy. He lost his joy when he pushed away loved ones for the pursuit of wealth. He had built a life of loneliness, a virtual hell on earth.

The examples of his father calling him home from boarding school for Christmas, His boss Fizzywig's kindness and generosity, the fun and joy his nephew Fred found in friends and the joy the Cratchits found in family despite illness and poverty gave him hope that he to could have joy by reconnecting with family, giving of himself and helping the Cratchits monetarily.

The joy you see at the end of the book is not only from his spiritual redemption but also the the escape from the miserable life he had been leading.

As the Beatles put it, "and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

[madmarva]

Jim said it much more succinctly and eloquently than me.

[spacecaps]

Even in Scrooges redemption, he's still an old geyser that has pretty much forged his legacy all ready. When Scrooge eventually passes, do you think everyone will remember that one Christmas when he had a change of heart or the 60 previous one where he a righteous old basterd. When Scrooge encounters Marley's ghost, he sees what his future holds in store for him so he seeks redemption (aided by the three ghosts) but at the end, Bob Cratchit and company aren't celebrating Scrooge's redemption, they're celebrating Christmas which is what they wanted for um, Christmas in the first place. Scrooge is just a by product of the celebration. Their joy happens because of his change of heart and for that they tolerate him but he is still the same guy who was a jerk all that time before. If the ghost really wanted to redeem him, they would have returned him to his younger days permanently (when he was happy) so he could forge a new legacy. Instead he's returned to the present where his reputation precedes him. Now while Scrooge does change on the inside and the change benefits all his employees and his family, the reason the employees are happy and why Scrooge is happy are two totally different things. The employees got what they wanted (time off for Christmas with their families) but the reason Scrooge feels good is because as far as he's concerned he's avoiding the same fate as Marley and that why the ending is so uplifting. It's a reminder to all of us that it's never to late to change our ways. The message is not meant for Scrooge, it's meant for us the audience.

[madmarva]

I think the story points out that joy is an attitude rather than a consequence. Fred and the Cratchits had joy despite their circumstances, while Scrooge was miserable despite his.