Will today's TV impact future generations?

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

"Lost in Space?" Oh no! A Carrot bent on REVENGE!!!!!! *shudder*

>They went out to make wonderfully enjoyable diverting shows that allowed an escape from reality.

All kidding aside; I think THIS is the crux. Shows were made to be watched. Period. Nobody cared if a bunch of nerds were gonna slowframe every scene looking for hidden messages. Nobody cared about slipping in little private jokes to show how much pop culture trivia they knew. It was about the show. I think the biggest casualty we've suffered comes from the focus on internal consistency. Nowadays (as part of that "clever" thing) WAY too much time is spent conforming to whatever the currently popular template is. Older stuff worried more about consistency within the show. Sure, you KNEW they weren't getting off the island; that was a part of it.

>There is nothing "adult" about the high school attitude towards sex most sitcom characters have today.

This is pretty prevalent everywhere. Goes back to my discussion about "Identity Crisis." You see a lot of stories that WANT to say they're dealing with "mature subject matter" but aren't; 'cos they don't want the responsibility of actually DEALING with said material.

>They took care to realize the shows were going into the homes of family with all ages of people and were careful to respect that.

NnnneeeEEEHHHhhhhh.... I think the main reason they kept it clean was 'cos they HAD to. It's funny to watch old stuff now, 'cos you can see when they were substituting. IE: Them weird, long drawn out kisses you'd see that are representing sex, 'cos you couldn't actually show sex. It gets really bad by the late 60's; and by the 70's there's more innuendo than actual dialogue in some shows. (Anyone remember Kirk's "boot scenes?")

>I think what surprised me most about checking out Hanna Montana is that it seems that the people making the show are following that same paradigm in bitter contrast to what comes on Network TV today.

...but don't go thinking it's social resopnsibility or anything. They know their audience: teenybopper girls. And they know their target market: the PARENTS of teenybopper girls.

Don C.

[mego73]

My son said that they mentioned a line from Planet of the Apes on Hanna Montana the other night. He said that he recognized a line, but they changed it a little. They said, "take your stinking paws off me you darn dirty ape!"

Isn't that so cool that one of the best films ever continues to surface all over the place?

I think I saw that. It's obvious some of the jokes are aimed at the parents as well as the kids. Most kids are not going to get that Apes reference.

Another time, one of the kids went "Hoyyyyoooooo" to a joke being made, just like Ed McMann on the Tonight Show.

About TV being crap, I generally agree, although there is some great TV here and there, it's mostly crap.

The difference today( and I'm talking mainly about sitcoms since action adventure or drama shows are a whole different animal) is that a lot of the crap shows are convinced they are great and relevant. And there is nothing I hate more than pretentious crap.

Plus, I also hate hiding smutty stuff on TV behind the sign of "frankness" and "adult sensibility" There is nothing "adult" about the high school attitude towards sex most sitcom characters have today.

The people that made Gilligan's Island, Brady Bunch, etc, knew what they were, they didn't have delusions of grandeur. They went out to make wonderfully enjoyable diverting shows that allowed an escape from reality. They took care to realize the shows were going into the homes of family with all ages of people and were careful to respect that.

I think what surprised me most about checking out Hanna Montana is that it seems that the people making the show are following that same paradigm in bitter contrast to what comes on Network TV today.

[jessica]

My son said that they mentioned a line from Planet of the Apes on Hanna Montana the other night. He said that he recognized a line, but they changed it a little. They said, "take your stinking paws off me you darn dirty ape!"

Isn't that so cool that one of the best films ever continues to surface all over the place?

[Mikey]

Lost in Space was one of the best TV's shows produced.
Most people that don't like it, just don't get it.

[Hector]

Lost in Space crap?

Come on now...



But yes, many 70s shows were pretty bad too.

[MegoGeekJr]

"Settle down, Beavis."

Most of what we watched in the '70s was crap. The Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island, Lost in Space… it was all stupid crap, but it kept our minds off Vietnam and disco.

(If you mean me)

Look, I'm sorry if I over said what I said.
I just get serious sometimes.

[ABMAC]

"Settle down, Beavis."

Most of what we watched in the '70s was crap. The Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island, Lost in Space… it was all stupid crap, but it kept our minds off Vietnam and disco.

[MegoGeekJr]

Kids these days(being a kid, but not a dumbass one)are going to get more dumb because the shows today do not teach, but make kids stupid!
This is what makes me mad!
All kinds of dumbass shows are springing up all over the place like a plauge!
I mean, have you watched CN, all the new shows look like they were **** out of a dumbass guy just wanting to get cash fast!
The new shows like George of the jungle, MR.MAN!
Judo somethig something, and Flapjack!
When I watch older shows like Ed,Edd,and Eddy, Courage the cowardly dog, and others, I have to suffer the pain of watching the new dumbass show commercials!
Especially stupid teen shows get me ****ed!
Those shows make stupid puns, dumb jokes, and horrifing actor(if anyone can call them that!)Especially little kids shows.They just talk about **** they already know that the school taught them.And by the way, schools do jack ****!
Even tv shows can teach them more than schools!




Well,............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................................I better calm down before I explode.

Different times, HardyGirl.

Back then kids only had television with a few channels.

Today they have television with a billion different channels, computers, video games, world wide web, 25 screen movie plexes, etc...

Very different world today.

But most of it is crap.
I mean nothing is good for anyone anymore!

[Hector]

This has got to be the worst TV season EVER.

For Networks...yes...horrid stuff for the most part.

But shows have never been better if we are talking about premuim cable channels shows like in HBO and Showtime.

Past and present shows:

Dexter
The Wire
The Tudors
The Sopranos
Six Feet Under
Curb Your Enthusiasm
The Larry Sanders Show
Carnivale
ROME
Deadwood

Not even close.

Premuin cable > > > > > > Network television

[grayhank]

This has got to be the worst TV season EVER. Are any of the new shows that started this fall even still on? I know the writer's strike has had a lot to do with it but I used to live for TV. Now the only show I even watch in primetime is CSI. That's one hour a week of TV. That will change if Lost, 24 and Battlestar Galactica ever come back on. I gave up on Heroes this season due to the commericials every 2 1/2 minutes. So most of my show watching comes from purchasing of DVDs.

Other than Lost and Heroes I don't foresee too many of the "newer" shows having an impact. For some reason Reality TV is still going strong on the major networks, but I really can't picture people running out to purchase DVDs of Dancing with The Stars, Nanny 911 or Who Want's to Marry an Out of Work Child Actor or whatever. It's like the networks aren't even trying anymore. For a while HBO was leading the way in original series that were creative and intelligent (Oz, Rome, Six Feet Under, Carnival, etc). Now even they have dropped the ball.

[ctc]

>What does change the playing field is DVD.

I think you've got some good points there. A lot of shows are written now with the INTENT of being sold as season-collected boxed sets; and that really affects presentation. Shows start creeping towards being "collectible" and "event oriented" (like comics) rather than being watched.

The only place you still see the old "each show is an event that occurs to the characters" sort of thing is the daytime soaps. They're meant to be watched, almost "as they're happening" to the characters; with no real concern to archiving or collecting them for later re-consumption. And the fans don't particularly care to "relive" them. That's not the point.

Don C.

[johnmiic]

You have only to look back over tv history to see what will happen in the future. After the sucess of Star Trek in syndication everyone shook their head in disbelief at the popularity of a recently cancelled show. Tho Trekkies will dispute this I always felt it was the style, the clothes, the gagets and the effects which made ST popular in it's day. As a kid I didn't care about the message. I thought it was a cool show and the way the characters had chemistry pulled me in.

Time has proven it's not that unique for a dead show to live on. Shows such as Gilligan's Island, I Dream Of Jeannie, I Love Lucy, The Honeymooners, Brady Bunch, All In The Family, The Jeffersons are re-run frequently and have broken thru the tv barrier. Their names are as recognizable to people on the street as any current hit show.

What does change the playing field is DVD. ST-TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise are out on DVD but are not strong preformers in re-runs as the original series was. Though many 1 hour dramas do poorly in syndication. The notable exception seems to be the Law & Order shows. Friends is available for home ownership and does not seem as good a player in syndication. Sienfeld is available on DVD but plays just as well in re-runs. I think to have a long life in re-runs a show has to have that much more popularity than before.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I think the trick is to remember that all those shows WE loved were made as disposable filler, just like the shows now. They were intended to be watched and enjoyed; and nobody expected anyone to care years after they were gone. But what happens LATER is that certain shows become representative of an era for people. That's what I meant when I said that the durability of a show depends more on the circumstances surrounding it than the show itself. People don't watch "Miami Vice" so much for th show; but because it encapsulates an era for them. "I remember those jackets! I haven't heard that song in years!" Same thing with stuff like the "Brady Bunch." The swetness and naievete you remember is your own; not that of the show. (Which was mostly vapid and hollow.) That's what made the movies from the 90's funny; they articulated the sort of things that an adult watching the show would think.

The hundred zillion channels doesn't matter either; it's the few shows that are decided, in retrospect, that survive. It's always been like that. Think how many shows have come and gone as it is; despite our "limited" channels and selections.

Shows that make a GENUINE impact tend to be more personal, and become "cult classics." No matter how many people they made an impact on. These shows strike an internal cord and aren't neccessarily representative of their era of origin; so in hindsight they're relegated to a sort of secondary status.

Don C.

[jds1911a1]

I think the reason many of the boomer shows from the 50's and 60's have such impact was the fact that cable hadn't gotten out of hand and infomercials weren't on tv in the 70's to the mid 80's yet. With less channels we had less choices so network programming was watched by more people. i don't think mash could have lasted 11 seasons if it came out now even though the irag war has caused many of the same issues with the public vietnam did. there are literally 100's of channels and most people have access to at least 40 even with basic cable. before the mid 80's tv channles had to run x # of hours of non commercial programming due to fcc regs. which was why small uhf channels ran reruns and old movies all the time. Now they just sell that time for infomercials or straight retail tv (Jewlery network, home shopping etc). So as a youth in the early 70's I had reruns of 50's tv on most channels unitl the launch of TV land which was all 50's 60's reruns for the first 10 years.
I am sure that the generations who grew up in the 90's will have thier special shows but I doubt many of them will carry on to the next generation. My 17 year old loved the olsen twins as a kid but their "slot" in culture has been filled by other shows like Hanna Montana. I think the video game culture will have more of a mark on kids today than TV

[mego73]

Back in the day, TV was concentrated to a few channels. With only a few shows to watch, it really helped to make shows iconic.

Now, the networks are not the only choice and the odds against shows making a broad cultural impact that last decades are much more remote.

Not that it's impossible, I think Seinfeld will beat the odds but I think other hot shows of today will be long forgotten by most.

Then there are those stealth phenomenons that will probably die out initially only to reignite when the fans reach a certain age.

Case in point, Hanna Montana. That show is hot right now, for the most part, it's also breezily written and fun (even to the parents that end up watching it due to their kids. I don't have kids myself but friends with kids tell me they either don't mind or enjoy watching the show themselves). Watching it myself (in our area, HM recently came for a concert and the hype was inescapable so I checked out the show) It's got the same vibe as The Brady Bunch and many other 60's family sitcoms did. In other words, it avoids the cynical, rude, low brow humor most network sitcoms trade in. A family can sit down, watch it and have fun and not cringe. The father is not an idiot and the kids are generally good. You know, the type of paradigm network TV has avoided for years due to it not being "realistic".

The Hanna Montana craze will eventually die down, partly because the target audience gets older but mainly because all shows must run their course.

But fast forward 20-25 years. That audience has their own kids and the preasures of life, like bills and other stuff. They will get nostalgic and also want to let their kids in on the stuff they loved. To feed that nostalgia, are they going to run out and get "Two and A Half Men"? No, they will get Hanna Montana because the nature of that show anchors much more good memories.

I guess what I am trying to say that the joy and innocence, is almost totally sucked out of modern network TV. And that is what builds the most nostalgia for shows over time. But what's missing on the networks is available on cable.