Hoodies banned for being "gangwear"

[txteach]

Thanks for your response Ant. You are always entertaining. H

[ABMAC]

I teach at a school with a low socioeconomic status so we could not do the donation thing. I'm glad because it sounds like a bad idea.

His point was that it's a stupid idea to set up a rule and then selectively ignore it in exchange for some kind of bribe.

We are more plagued with gang problems and fighting. I like this debate but I think many are out of touch with what today's schools are like. Maybe the suburbs don't need to take drastic measures but we do.

Drastic measures aren't always effective measures. It sounds like the school system is concerned with appearing to address the problem, but they're only attacking one of its symptoms.

I'd love uniforms here (even for the teachers)to help these kids get some uniformity and pride in something.

Forcing kids to adhere to a strict dress code will only make the hoodlums look like everyone else. If enforced conformity instills pride, prison inmates must be the proudest people in the country.

I also believe in searches and metal detectors.

They're effective, and they address the problem directly.

The minute something goes wrong in one of the rich, lilly white schools in our country you'll see how they change their tune.

Yeah, I lie awake at night worrying that gangs of rich kids with positive parental role models are going to start riots at expensive private schools, decimating our future Conservative population.

Do you think Columbine just went back to what they had always done?

I don't know what they've done, or whether it was effective. Do you? If their problems have been resolved, it may be that the measures they took had nothing to do with it.

Maybe I'm in the minority here and thars ok. I just invite you to take a tour of where I work and not lump all schools together in one nice, neat package.

I don't doubt that your school has a problem, or that banning hoodies will appear to solve your school's problem for a short time, but it's all smoke and mirrors.

[toys2cool]

I teach at a school with a low socioeconomic status so we could not do the donation thing. I'm glad because it sounds like a bad idea. We are more plagued with gang problems and fighting. I like this debate but I think many are out of touch with what today's schools are like. Maybe the suburbs don't need to take drastic measures but we do. I'd love uniforms here (even for the teachers)to help these kids get some uniformity and pride in something. I also believe in searches and metal detectors. The minute something goes wrong in one of the rich, lilly white schools in our country you'll see how they change their tune. Do you think Columbine just went back to what they had always done? Maybe I'm in the minority here and thars ok. I just invite you to take a tour of where I work and not lump all schools together in one nice, neat package.

It's true John.No one really knows until they've seen them all.I had the bad luck of going to some real rough schools at one time,Places where I use to get teased and jumped for wearing my GNR,Kiss or even Metallica shirts.One really bad school had gotten burned down due to some riots and they sent half of those kids to our school right by the orange bowl,and man they destroyed our school, These guys were gangster hip hop guys who came to school with weapons,drugs and you name it.Those were some of the worst years of my life,but you don't know until you've been there

I do believe in metal detectors and not uniforms,but maybe some sort of dress code

[txteach]

I teach at a school with a low socioeconomic status so we could not do the donation thing. I'm glad because it sounds like a bad idea. We are more plagued with gang problems and fighting. I like this debate but I think many are out of touch with what today's schools are like. Maybe the suburbs don't need to take drastic measures but we do. I'd love uniforms here (even for the teachers)to help these kids get some uniformity and pride in something. I also believe in searches and metal detectors. The minute something goes wrong in one of the rich, lilly white schools in our country you'll see how they change their tune. Do you think Columbine just went back to what they had always done? Maybe I'm in the minority here and thars ok. I just invite you to take a tour of where I work and not lump all schools together in one nice, neat package.

[Hulk]

My son is in middle school and I found this irritating. He said that today you could wear a hat to school if you paid $1 (I guess into the PTA fund).

I asked him what the normal rule was for hats and he said they were not allowed.

It got me thinking about this topic again and how scorched I was to hear that the school is trying to raise funds by allowing something that is disallowed? What kind of backwards thinking is that?

Same thinking as used in the corporate world to allow jeans or t-shirts on casual days if you donate to the United Way. Its not only annoying, but it actually becomes a way to make people stick out if they DON'T pay up. The place I worked at before this did that, so I work a suit to work to spite them (I donate to my favorite charities directly). All day long my coworkers and managers were asking me if I had an interview for another job. I just laughed, walked away and took a long lunch.

[Adam West]

My son is in middle school and I found this irritating. He said that today you could wear a hat to school if you paid $1 (I guess into the PTA fund).

I asked him what the normal rule was for hats and he said they were not allowed.

It got me thinking about this topic again and how scorched I was to hear that the school is trying to raise funds by allowing something that is disallowed? What kind of backwards thinking is that?

[Adam West]

Regarding the no jeans to work rule, you have a choice. You can choose not to work for a company with a no jeans rule. We have a pretty relaxed atmosphere at my company and although jeans are acceptable, it would be frowned upon to wear them every day in my department. I know it might seem silly but it's not considered professional to wear jeans every day when you work in an accounting/finance profession.

At school it's different. If you go to public school, you really have no choice but to go to the one that's closest to your home and if they have a dress code, as a kid, you really have no choice but to abide by it unless your parents get involved.

[ctc]

>really well thought out post

I kinda take this stuff personally since I've been on the RECIEVING end of misguided authority most of my life. I was pretty young when I realised how clueless the folks trying to "protect" me were. (10 or so; right around the time D&D was declared evil by a bunch of folks who'd obviously never read any of the books.) Being the smart kid AND the fat kid got me in a lot of fights; where I learned how quickly the unpopular kid can become the scapegoat. (Something I see happening a lot these days. I can think of more than a few people at work who's kids have got in serious trouble for DEFENDING themselves in fights.) So I guess I come by my distrust of authority honestly.

>Hey, I can't wear jeans to work. Sometimes you have to wear what is acceptable for the business you are conducting -- school included.

Which is fine. I went to a school with a dress code and even on relaxed dress days we weren't allowed to wear denim. Just 'cos. Stupid maybe, arbitrary definitely; but that's their call. It's when you say stuff like "denim promoted drunkenness" that I start having an issue. (Which they DIDN'T... I sorta pulled that example out of the air.)

Don C.

[z3zep]

Hey, I can't wear jeans to work. Sometimes you have to wear what is acceptable for the business you are conducting -- school included. just my 2 cents.

[txteach]

What is a skool?

[ozcollector1992]

My school says the same thing....
No hoodies it promotes gang activity in the area. This may be because I am in a prep school though.IDK??

[huedell]

I'm speechless Don---really well thought out post---thanks!

[ctc]

>but it IS an attempt at something while better ideas are also being examined and implemented

Well.... it's beem my experience that the exact OPPOSITE happens. The folks who are ultimately in charge implement policies that can distance the school and themselves from any negative occurence; but the policies enacted do NOTHING to solve the problem. OR they end up making them worse....

>comparing them to the PMRC etc.

... and THERE'S my fave example. So; the PMRC decided that music was too vile and icky for public consumption, and in the end because of them a rating system was instated. Which resulted in increasingly icky and vile music; since you could now slap a rating/disclaimour on it and put out pretty much whatever you wanted. Didi it keep this stuff out of the hands of kids? No. But the rating system facilitated wider distribution of said questionable material. It also led to a lot of crappy music since all a band had to do to create controversey (read: publicity) was use some bad words or questionable sexual imagry. Same thing happened in the 90's with video games.

So; schools ban hoodies and/or instate dress codes; and everyone is content that you've now solved the problem since nobody will know who's a ganger or not, and nobody can hide stuff in their uniform. And everyone breathes easier... until the next incident. "HOW could this happen?!?!?"

>If there hasn't been a bigger better solution implemented by now, then it can't really be that easy to do so--- can it?

Nope, but I'm concerned with folks implementing half-hearted solutions and then TELLING themselves the problem is solved. It's not about security; it's about the ILLLUSION of security. (With a fair bit of CYOA as well.)

>As usual its PARENTS OF CHILDREN who have the most power to help

Don't forget the kids themselves. I remember after Columbine there were TONS of "why did they do it?" articles in magazines, on the news, in newspapers... doesn't seem so complicated to me. Nerds get picked on, nerds get guns, nerds kill a bunch of people. Here's a worst case scenario of what can happen when you pick on other kids. And when kids being picked on don't feel they have anywhere to go for help, or any ability to deal with stress, or put things in perspective. (Nobody tells you that high school is completely meaningless the second you graduate.) There's a whole lot of things you can do to intercede here; banning black coats isn't one of them. (It DOES alienate the kids who wore trenchcoats though, since now you've OFFICIALLY declared them to be outcasts.)

Parents can be the PROBLEM a lot of the time too. That magical combination of not paying attention to your kids (either to discipline or support them) and going off on anyone who DARES question their angel-hood. Solving these problems are tougher. School authorities need to stand up to parents on one hand, without isolating the problem kids. When I was in school I saw a lot of kids become scapegoats for the school. Usually the kid with the least infuential parents was to blame.

>what they've done throughout the decades hasn't been quite enough to invalidate half-baked ideas being put into effect to deal with youth problems

You gotta do what you gotta do; but I think a lot of what's done makes things worse. Not INTENTIONALLY; but it's amazing how quickly people seem to get out of touch. Kids aren't THAT complicated: they're still just like when you were one, but they dress differently. Every ten years.

Don C.

[Adam West]

Crocs get the boot at some schools - USATODAY.com

I'm more concerned by the ban on Crocs! How dare they!

I actually had a girl on my soccer team who was wearing Crocs and they got caught in an escalator. Tore the Croc in half and chewed into her big toe. She needed stitches and benched her for half of the season.

[huedell]

Like I said earlier----just brushing this decision off as completely useless
seems too extreme to me---- sure its far from the root of the problem, but it
IS an attempt at something while better ideas are also being examined and
implemented (I don't have any examples--I'm no school system guy--but surely
"no hoodies" isn't the ONLY strategy here to supress school violence)

Anyway---comparing them to the PMRC etc. and saying how they must get to the "root
of the problem" instead of what they are doing is valiant and, in theory, technically
a more succinct move---- cool, keep up trying to come up with the "ultimate solution"
but unfortunately reality steps in and the scenario remains of the whole inability to
totally attack the root of children's misguided behavior AT the root---
-so what are "authorities" REALLY supposed to do? If there hasn't been a bigger better
solution implemented by now, then it can't really be that easy to do so--- can it?

Translation: Feeble attempts are better than no attempts PLUS I'm sure
there are OTHER things going on too---other than "banning hoodies" to deal
with school violence----this is just the news article of the week (so to speak)

As usual its PARENTS OF CHILDREN who have the most power to help---and sadly what
they've done throughout the decades hasn't been quite enough to invalidate
half-baked ideas being put into effect to deal with youth problems