Hoodies banned for being "gangwear"

[ABMAC]

And Ant---regarding everything you said up to your last post---

Well, I wouldn't want to be the one going in and zeroing in on which kids
are the "hoodlums"---and THEN deciding which one of those "hoodlums" to eject from
the school without other things coming into play to HELP (i.e. certain rules & stuff--
-preventative measures, etc.) --- its such an ongoing coomplicated process,
so the way to handle this has to a combo of many different things--

--not just saying: "Hey, get rid of the bad kids"

I mean it can't be that easy....can it?

A kid with drugs or weapons is a hoodlum. What's complicated about that?

[huedell]

And Ant---regarding everything you said up to your last post---

Well, I wouldn't want to be the one going in and zeroing in on which kids
are the "hoodlums"---and THEN deciding which one of those "hoodlums" to eject from
the school without other things coming into play to HELP (i.e. certain rules & stuff--
-preventative measures, etc.) --- its such an ongoing complicated process,
so the way to handle this has to a combo of many different things--

--not just saying: "Hey, get rid of the bad kids"

I mean it can't be that easy....can it?

[huedell]

Middle/High school shouldn't be treated like a day care. Kids should be taught, not taken care of.

I disagree --- schools should definitely have the welfare of these young impressionable
minds IN mind when they draw up their rules/regulations---young kids in
a PUBLIC educational environment cannot just run free---the "bad apples" will
surely take advantage of that

If there's a gang problem, deal with the gangs, not the entire student body. The "one bad apple" argument is stupid, because kids are not fruit. Tell kids what's wrong and give them an alternative, rather than just taking away all choice whatsoever.

I think the "one bad apple" argument works just fine---there are always going to bad
elements in public schools---better to be preventative---the alternative would
be to monitor each and every kid individually which is impossible--- and, frankly,
unnecessary

If we're quoting things, here's one: "Oh oh. Two independent thought alarms in one day. The students are overstimulated. Willie! Remove all the colored chalk from the classrooms."

If it fed into gang behavior...I'd be all for it---colored chalk isn't part of a known gang
stereotype---hoodies apparently are

The big problem I'm seeing here with the "hoodie banning" isn't the move itself---
but doesn't it stand to reason that once hoodies are banned---won't gangs come up
with an alternative thing just to irk/dodge the system?

Seems like it may be a neverending battle----but I dunno

[ABMAC]

Exactly! Which is why they make decisions like this one. They can't eliminate all of the situations but they can eliminate some.

Treating the symptoms is a temporary solution at best.

Schools have the children for 30-35 hours a week. Parents have them for the other 130+ but when something goes wrong it's the schools fault. It simply isn't right.

No, it isn't right, so why don't you stand up to them instead of buckling under? Some irresponsible parents might feel that the school should control their kids, but not everyone does. You're punishing good kids to appease bad parents.

My Mom was a teacher for 35 years. I couldn't wait for her to get out of the public system. 4 years after she has retired, they're offering her job back at full pay because they can't find anyone to take it. They've had subs teaching for almost 4 years on and off. Soon school won't matter because there won't be enough teachers to do the job. Eventually the satisfaction teachers get from helping and teaching kids won't outweigh the pure aggravation that goes with the job.

What satisfaction do they get when they're more concerned with controlling extra-curricular activity than they are with teaching? New teachers can't cut it because they foolishly expect to teach and the system has them babysitting.

How many parents will pay privately to put their kids through twelve years of school? Not many I bet. Many couldn't afford to.

When the school system adopted a non-mandatory uniform and then tried to pressure my kids into wearing them, I withdrew them from public school and home-schooled them for a few years. After we moved to a different area where the schools didn't have uniforms, we put them back into public school and both of them skipped a grade.

FYI, I also am for allowing children to express themselves to develop their individuality. Even if it's a boy in make-up and a dress. As a parent of twins it's even more so because of the overwhelming desire my wife had to dress my boys alike I always worried they'd have an issue. Fortunately they did develop their own respective personalities in the end. In the end is the Hoodie issue really that big of a sacrifice? Also, Remember to thank your kids teachers, it isn't done enough. When you send out your X-mas cards send one to their teacher just to say thank you, especially if it's one that influenced your child in a positive way.

Losing a freedom, even a small one, is not an acceptable sacrifice unless something greater is gained by it. Banning hoodies won't solve your problems; you've got to ban the hoodlums.

[huedell]

As a former kid, I take offense to this.

Hoodies are real good at keeping you warm during the winter, and if someone wanted to keep their head warm, there's a ready made hat sewn into the thing. Problem solved.

Not allowing kids to wear hoodies because they're "gangwear" is stupid. That's like banning baseball uniforms because the Baseball Furies wore them, and they were a violent gang. It does nothing but stifle creativity and expression.

And while it's true, school is about education, it's also about encouraging individuality and creativity. When you take away the individuality, you take away the individual.

Middle/High school shouldn't be treated like a day care. Kids should be taught, not taken care of. If there's a gang problem, deal with the gangs, not the entire student body. The "one bad apple" argument is stupid, because kids are not fruit. Tell kids what's wrong and give them an alternative, rather than just taking away all choice whatsoever.

If we're quoting things, here's one: "Oh oh. Two independent thought alarms in one day. The students are overstimulated. Willie! Remove all the colored chalk from the classrooms."

Before you lose your stuff here, getting "offended"

Realize that I'm merely agreeing with the idea of some kind of
dress code that most likely will deter gang behavior---um BAD behavior--
---not "Fonzie behavior"

I'm NOT looking to stifle creativity---again:
People have posted that this "hoodie banning" has no grounds--
-I disagree---because I like it when the school is being pro-active to
quell what it thinks are problems

Read txteach's posts---he's in the thick of it

It's a damned if you DO ---damned if ya don't situation
and I'd rather err on the side of safety,,, thank you

I'm not saying that those that disagree with me are
"give a dog a $14 million inheritance" crazy---far from it
---you have good points

It's just that all things being equal---if it was up to me---
I don't see anything particularly wrong with banning hoodies

[megocrazy]

Everybody always gripes until something happens. Then we at the school get blamed. "Why didn't the teacher see the signs,It's the school's fault because they should have seen that little Billy was a Crypt. He was wearing all the Crypt gear". We in schools are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We try to impliment rules for safety and get blamed for styfling individualism. Something bad happens and we are blamed for not taking action. A lose/lose situation.

Exactly! Which is why they make decisions like this one. They can't eliminate all of the situations but they can eliminate some. Schools have the children for 30-35 hours a week. Parents have them for the other 130+ but when something goes wrong it's the schools fault. It simply isn't right. My Mom was a teacher for 35 years. I couldn't wait for her to get out of the public system. 4 years after she has retired, they're offering her job back at full pay because they can't find anyone to take it. They've had subs teaching for almost 4 years on and off. Soon school won't matter because there won't be enough teachers to do the job. Eventually the satisfaction teachers get from helping and teaching kids won't outweigh the pure aggravation that goes with the job. How many parents will pay privately to put their kids through twelve years of school? Not many I bet. Many couldn't afford to. FYI, I also am for allowing children to express themselves to develop their individuality. Even if it's a boy in make-up and a dress. As a parent of twins it's even more so because of the overwhelming desire my wife had to dress my boys alike I always worried they'd have an issue. Fortunately they did develop their own respective personalities in the end. In the end is the Hoodie issue really that big of a sacrifice? Also, Remember to thank your kids teachers, it isn't done enough. When you send out your X-mas cards send one to their teacher just to say thank you, especially if it's one that influenced your child in a positive way.

[ABMAC]

Everybody always gripes until something happens. Then we at the school get blamed. "Why didn't the teacher see the signs,It's the school's fault because they should have seen that little Billy was a Crypt. He was wearing all the Crypt gear". We in schools are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We try to impliment rules for safety and get blamed for styfling individualism. Something bad happens and we are blamed for not taking action. A lose/lose situation.

Like I said before, being in a gang isn't illegal, and it isn't the school's responsibility to watch for signs of gang activity outside the school. Hoodies aren't inherently unsafe, so that argument doesn't fly. Kids will continue to sneak drugs and weapons into school as long as they can come up with a way to get away with it. The only sure way to keep them from bringing stuff in is to stop them from going out.

There's an idea; let's just give the state control of our kids from the time they're old enough for kindergarten until they're old enough to vote. Shave their heads every week and make them wear grey jumpsuits without pockets. We can even brainwash them to be "patriotic" so they'll be willing to die to perpetuate the system.

Fonzie was in a gang. They weren't the Crips, but they were a gang.

[Adam West]

If a kid wanted to hide something they could hide things in their pockets, shoes, inside their pants, purses, wallets, books, book bags and so on.
I can see your point Teach. I'm not putting blame on anyone for something bad that has happened. It's just that hoodies being banned doesn't makes any sense to me.

That's exactly my sentiment.

[Marvelmania]

If a kid wanted to hide something they could hide things in their pockets, shoes, inside their pants, purses, wallets, books, book bags and so on.
I can see your point Teach. I'm not putting blame on anyone for something bad that has happened. It's just that hoodies being banned doesn't makes any sense to me.

[txteach]

Everybody always gripes until something happens. Then we at the school get blamed. "Why didn't the teacher see the signs,It's the school's fault because they should have seen that little Billy was a Crypt. He was wearing all the Crypt gear". We in schools are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We try to impliment rules for safety and get blamed for styfling individualism. Something bad happens and we are blamed for not taking action. A lose/lose situation.

[Hornet of Doom]

If a child's creativity and individuality is defined by a hooded sweatshirt, school attire is the last thing on the stuff to worry about list. Just a thought. Would anyone that voiced opposition be bothered by a boy wearing a dress and make-up to school? If he was just expressing himself. Girls do it every day. Does your argument change based on the situation? Just wondering. CG

That's a little different, since it's distracting. However, I knew at least one guy in high school who *did* put on make-up every morning before coming to school. He never shot anyone, he hasn't killed himself yet, he was just expressing himself. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Uniforms are designed to repress individuality. And while it is possible to be an individual even when they look like everyone else, it shouldn't be forced upon them. When they look like everyone else, they have to do something to make yourself stand out, for better or for worse.

And, like AW pointed out, if a kid wants something he's not supposed to have, he's going to find a way to get it to school.

[Adam West]

The problem with the hoodies is they hide things in the hoods. Drugs, guns, knives, etc. It's unfortunate but it is reality. Most parents today have no sense of responsibility to their children. Many don't have a clue as to where their kids go, what people they hang out with, as long as their not giving them a problem they're fine. These are the parents who can't believe their little angel gets caught selling drugs and they're amazed. Next time any of the parents here attend a school open house check the lines for the class rooms for the level 1 students vs the level 3 students. I guarantee you'll find the lines at the level 3 classrooms a lot shorter. Coincidence, No, if you can't be bothered to take an interest in how your kid is doing in school, why should they. The same applies for the school attire. From the content of most of the posts here, nobody influenced by this regulation ever contacted the schools and said "can you please explain why this decision was made so I understand?" It happened in our system and when I learned why, I felt it was a minimal compromise to help the school personel attempt to control what could end up being a tragic happening if something occured. If a child's creativity and individuality is defined by a hooded sweatshirt, school attire is the last thing on the stuff to worry about list. Just a thought. Would anyone that voiced opposition be bothered by a boy wearing a dress and make-up to school? If he was just expressing himself. Girls do it every day. Does your argument change based on the situation? Just wondering. CG

I really am trying to follow the logic but am having trouble. Drugs, Knives, and guns can be hidden in much more than a hood on a sweatshirt. Call me crazy but if people are hiding these types of things in hoodies, don't you think they would find something else to hide them in if hoodies are banned?

Just for the record, I wouldn't be bothered by a boy wearing a dress and make-up at school.

[megocrazy]

The problem with the hoodies is they hide things in the hoods. Drugs, guns, knives, etc. It's unfortunate but it is reality. Most parents today have no sense of responsibility to their children. Many don't have a clue as to where their kids go, what people they hang out with, as long as their not giving them a problem they're fine. These are the parents who can't believe their little angel gets caught selling drugs and they're amazed. Next time any of the parents here attend a school open house check the lines for the class rooms for the level 1 students vs the level 3 students. I guarantee you'll find the lines at the level 3 classrooms a lot shorter. Coincidence, No, if you can't be bothered to take an interest in how your kid is doing in school, why should they. The same applies for the school attire. From the content of most of the posts here, nobody influenced by this regulation ever contacted the schools and said "can you please explain why this decision was made so I understand?" It happened in our system and when I learned why, I felt it was a minimal compromise to help the school personel attempt to control what could end up being a tragic happening if something occured. If a child's creativity and individuality is defined by a hooded sweatshirt, school attire is the last thing on the stuff to worry about list. Just a thought. Would anyone that voiced opposition be bothered by a boy wearing a dress and make-up to school? If he was just expressing himself. Girls do it every day. Does your argument change based on the situation? Just wondering. CG

[Adam West]

Seems pretty silly to me. Banning certain types of clothing will not result in less gang activity...the argument is illogical.

I could understand if school administrators do not want kids wearing the hoods on their heads inside the school but to ban them altogether seems ridiculous.

I guess all Oakland Raider apparel should also be banned since it has affiliations with certain gangs?

[EMCE Hammer]

txteach --- I hear what you're saying, but I can't really be all that sympathetic
---as what you're describing is part what being a teacher is all about----
i.e. dealing with parents who run the gamut from well-adjusted to mentally unhinged
so that you can get thru the school year achieving your goal which is: to educate their
kids----bottom line: there's no guarantee that adults will be any less "unruly" than their
children----to educate your students the most efficiently, you have to deal with both
to survive and thrive ---its a package deal

Being a teacher shouldn't have anything to do with dealing with mentally unhinged parents. Just because it often does shouldn't be a reason to accept that it should be part of some "package deal." There isn't anymore of a place in the education system for unruly parents than there is unruly children. Don't confuse life as it is with life as it should be.