Hoodies banned for being "gangwear"

[megocrazy]

Everybody always gripes until something happens. Then we at the school get blamed. "Why didn't the teacher see the signs,It's the school's fault because they should have seen that little Billy was a Crypt. He was wearing all the Crypt gear". We in schools are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We try to impliment rules for safety and get blamed for styfling individualism. Something bad happens and we are blamed for not taking action. A lose/lose situation.

Exactly! Which is why they make decisions like this one. They can't eliminate all of the situations but they can eliminate some. Schools have the children for 30-35 hours a week. Parents have them for the other 130+ but when something goes wrong it's the schools fault. It simply isn't right. My Mom was a teacher for 35 years. I couldn't wait for her to get out of the public system. 4 years after she has retired, they're offering her job back at full pay because they can't find anyone to take it. They've had subs teaching for almost 4 years on and off. Soon school won't matter because there won't be enough teachers to do the job. Eventually the satisfaction teachers get from helping and teaching kids won't outweigh the pure aggravation that goes with the job. How many parents will pay privately to put their kids through twelve years of school? Not many I bet. Many couldn't afford to. FYI, I also am for allowing children to express themselves to develop their individuality. Even if it's a boy in make-up and a dress. As a parent of twins it's even more so because of the overwhelming desire my wife had to dress my boys alike I always worried they'd have an issue. Fortunately they did develop their own respective personalities in the end. In the end is the Hoodie issue really that big of a sacrifice? Also, Remember to thank your kids teachers, it isn't done enough. When you send out your X-mas cards send one to their teacher just to say thank you, especially if it's one that influenced your child in a positive way.

[huedell]

As a former kid, I take offense to this.

Hoodies are real good at keeping you warm during the winter, and if someone wanted to keep their head warm, there's a ready made hat sewn into the thing. Problem solved.

Not allowing kids to wear hoodies because they're "gangwear" is stupid. That's like banning baseball uniforms because the Baseball Furies wore them, and they were a violent gang. It does nothing but stifle creativity and expression.

And while it's true, school is about education, it's also about encouraging individuality and creativity. When you take away the individuality, you take away the individual.

Middle/High school shouldn't be treated like a day care. Kids should be taught, not taken care of. If there's a gang problem, deal with the gangs, not the entire student body. The "one bad apple" argument is stupid, because kids are not fruit. Tell kids what's wrong and give them an alternative, rather than just taking away all choice whatsoever.

If we're quoting things, here's one: "Oh oh. Two independent thought alarms in one day. The students are overstimulated. Willie! Remove all the colored chalk from the classrooms."

Before you lose your stuff here, getting "offended"

Realize that I'm merely agreeing with the idea of some kind of
dress code that most likely will deter gang behavior---um BAD behavior--
---not "Fonzie behavior"

I'm NOT looking to stifle creativity---again:
People have posted that this "hoodie banning" has no grounds--
-I disagree---because I like it when the school is being pro-active to
quell what it thinks are problems

Read txteach's posts---he's in the thick of it

It's a damned if you DO ---damned if ya don't situation
and I'd rather err on the side of safety,,, thank you

I'm not saying that those that disagree with me are
"give a dog a $14 million inheritance" crazy---far from it
---you have good points

It's just that all things being equal---if it was up to me---
I don't see anything particularly wrong with banning hoodies

[ABMAC]

Exactly! Which is why they make decisions like this one. They can't eliminate all of the situations but they can eliminate some.

Treating the symptoms is a temporary solution at best.

Schools have the children for 30-35 hours a week. Parents have them for the other 130+ but when something goes wrong it's the schools fault. It simply isn't right.

No, it isn't right, so why don't you stand up to them instead of buckling under? Some irresponsible parents might feel that the school should control their kids, but not everyone does. You're punishing good kids to appease bad parents.

My Mom was a teacher for 35 years. I couldn't wait for her to get out of the public system. 4 years after she has retired, they're offering her job back at full pay because they can't find anyone to take it. They've had subs teaching for almost 4 years on and off. Soon school won't matter because there won't be enough teachers to do the job. Eventually the satisfaction teachers get from helping and teaching kids won't outweigh the pure aggravation that goes with the job.

What satisfaction do they get when they're more concerned with controlling extra-curricular activity than they are with teaching? New teachers can't cut it because they foolishly expect to teach and the system has them babysitting.

How many parents will pay privately to put their kids through twelve years of school? Not many I bet. Many couldn't afford to.

When the school system adopted a non-mandatory uniform and then tried to pressure my kids into wearing them, I withdrew them from public school and home-schooled them for a few years. After we moved to a different area where the schools didn't have uniforms, we put them back into public school and both of them skipped a grade.

FYI, I also am for allowing children to express themselves to develop their individuality. Even if it's a boy in make-up and a dress. As a parent of twins it's even more so because of the overwhelming desire my wife had to dress my boys alike I always worried they'd have an issue. Fortunately they did develop their own respective personalities in the end. In the end is the Hoodie issue really that big of a sacrifice? Also, Remember to thank your kids teachers, it isn't done enough. When you send out your X-mas cards send one to their teacher just to say thank you, especially if it's one that influenced your child in a positive way.

Losing a freedom, even a small one, is not an acceptable sacrifice unless something greater is gained by it. Banning hoodies won't solve your problems; you've got to ban the hoodlums.

[huedell]

Middle/High school shouldn't be treated like a day care. Kids should be taught, not taken care of.

I disagree --- schools should definitely have the welfare of these young impressionable
minds IN mind when they draw up their rules/regulations---young kids in
a PUBLIC educational environment cannot just run free---the "bad apples" will
surely take advantage of that

If there's a gang problem, deal with the gangs, not the entire student body. The "one bad apple" argument is stupid, because kids are not fruit. Tell kids what's wrong and give them an alternative, rather than just taking away all choice whatsoever.

I think the "one bad apple" argument works just fine---there are always going to bad
elements in public schools---better to be preventative---the alternative would
be to monitor each and every kid individually which is impossible--- and, frankly,
unnecessary

If we're quoting things, here's one: "Oh oh. Two independent thought alarms in one day. The students are overstimulated. Willie! Remove all the colored chalk from the classrooms."

If it fed into gang behavior...I'd be all for it---colored chalk isn't part of a known gang
stereotype---hoodies apparently are

The big problem I'm seeing here with the "hoodie banning" isn't the move itself---
but doesn't it stand to reason that once hoodies are banned---won't gangs come up
with an alternative thing just to irk/dodge the system?

Seems like it may be a neverending battle----but I dunno

[huedell]

And Ant---regarding everything you said up to your last post---

Well, I wouldn't want to be the one going in and zeroing in on which kids
are the "hoodlums"---and THEN deciding which one of those "hoodlums" to eject from
the school without other things coming into play to HELP (i.e. certain rules & stuff--
-preventative measures, etc.) --- its such an ongoing complicated process,
so the way to handle this has to a combo of many different things--

--not just saying: "Hey, get rid of the bad kids"

I mean it can't be that easy....can it?

[ABMAC]

And Ant---regarding everything you said up to your last post---

Well, I wouldn't want to be the one going in and zeroing in on which kids
are the "hoodlums"---and THEN deciding which one of those "hoodlums" to eject from
the school without other things coming into play to HELP (i.e. certain rules & stuff--
-preventative measures, etc.) --- its such an ongoing coomplicated process,
so the way to handle this has to a combo of many different things--

--not just saying: "Hey, get rid of the bad kids"

I mean it can't be that easy....can it?

A kid with drugs or weapons is a hoodlum. What's complicated about that?

[huedell]

A kid with drugs or weapons is a hoodlum. What's complicated about that?

True---but my thoughts were---once you got a kid brought up on those charges---then
you have to investigate and then decide the punishment etc, etc. (all that goes with it)
and IF you take into consideration that THAT'S difficult already (at least from my POV)
then to take away preventative measures like a dress code that includes the "no hoodies"
thing it just seems like you're taking away potential "preventative resources" for
no important reason

Yes "no hoodies" may be TOO MUCH of a regulation---but I think it also may be
valid enough to be LITTLE ENOUGH of a regulation not be frowned upon and called
an "insult" to the kids---or a dangerous overall idea

It works both ways----its just where do you draw the line is the thing

I already acknowledged that gangs will most likely find another piece of clothing
to utilize as definitive gangwear----and so, the question remains:
will it be too much of a game of "catch up" for the "rule makers" to keep up this kind
of dress code monitoring?

[Marvelmania]

It just seems to me that by doing this it is teaching kids that steriotyping people is acceptable and an ok solution in order to make a preemptive strike against a problem that may or may not happen.

[megoscott]

It just seems like a silly action done by people who understand neither kids or gangs. I put myself in that category.

[Mikey]

Weird thinking this guy would be banned today --for his attire.......



m

[Hornet of Doom]

I disagree --- schools should definitely have the welfare of these young impressionable
minds IN mind when they draw up their rules/regulations---young kids in
a PUBLIC educational environment cannot just run free---the "bad apples" will
surely take advantage of that

Then you do something to take care of the "bad apples." You can't treat everyone like a "bad apple" just because they could be, become, or be associated with "bad apples."

I went to a school that had uniforms. There were still cliques, fights, and at least one gang. Uniforms do nothing other than take away that one freedom.

I think the "one bad apple" argument works just fine---there are always going to bad
elements in public schools---better to be preventative---the alternative would
be to monitor each and every kid individually which is impossible--- and, frankly,
unnecessary

OK, maybe preventative measures could be taken... But uniforms and the banning of hoodies are not a good preventative measure.

And BTW, I think you missed my point. The fact that there's a gang at a school does not mean that everybody at school should be treated like they're part of it.

If it fed into gang behavior...I'd be all for it---colored chalk isn't part of a known gang
stereotype---hoodies apparently are

No, but what if it were? Would they ban colored chalk in a move to wipe out gangs?

The big problem I'm seeing here with the "hoodie banning" isn't the move itself---
but doesn't it stand to reason that once hoodies are banned---won't gangs come up
with an alternative thing just to irk/dodge the system?

Seems like it may be a neverending battle----but I dunno

Which is why it doesn't work. Teachers and the School Boards need to spend more time worrying about *why* gangs get started, not how you can tell a kid is part of a gang.

[huedell]

All good points Hornet----I still think that the student body as a whole has to be
monitored in a number of ways to stomp out bad apples---just my POV---I think the
other philosophy is too finite---but both ways are a slippery slope---i can't
downplay how much I realize this...

Which is why it doesn't work. Teachers and the School Boards need to spend more time worrying about *why* gangs get started, not how you can tell a kid is part of a gang.

So, taking your last bit into consideration---I think they ARE doing what they
can to some extent on the side of deconstructing the gang mentality----banning
hoodies may very well be a SMALL part of an overall gameplan---I hope so anyway
---I just do not know though

And Mike---even Rocky Balboa was a thug working for the Philly gangsters to "get by"
---which is the very same reasoning the majority of gang kids use----that's just an
"ironic observation" though (regarding your post), as Rocky's sweatshirt/hoodie had nothing
to do with nothing back then!

[Mikey]

To be honest.......
I'm still shocked hearing there are gangs in Tennessee.

[Merlyn1976]

Excluding derogatory messages on T-shirts and ill fitting clothes my children will dress how they want...and no teacher will tell them otherwise...

It's not their place to raise my children nor tell them what they can and can't wear...

Teachers are there solely for education...

It makes no sense whatsoever to punish children who do nothing wrong...

[Marvelmania]

To be honest.......
I'm still shocked hearing there are gangs in Tennessee.

People here had to do something when all the moonshine stills were busted

I always knew those hooded sweatshirts were trouble from the moment I laid eyes on them. I remember when I was a kid and put one on, God, the power I felt! Make no mistake, those sweat shirts are the devils garments. For a while I was thinking maybe it was how some of the kids were raised, or perhaps the environment they grew up in.



Really this thread was not intended to accuse or put any blame on teachers. I was just surprised by the banning of a sweatshirt w/ a hood on it and wondered why some would consider it worthy of being banned or see it as gangwear. That's why I asked for others opinion.