Sorry Michael Vick...

[toys2cool]

I'm puzzled by the constant comparisons of Vick to stuff other NFL players have done. The WR who got drunk and hit someone cooperated fully the entire way through, was genuinely remorseful (and NOT because/after he got caught), and even faced the family of the man he killed. Doesn't mean I don't think it was a terrible thing, but it doesn't compare to Vick's situation.

Vick didn't get two years for dogfighting- he got that sentence for FEDERAL conspiracy charges and he got a stiffer sentence because he initially LIED. People make it out like the cops busted a backyard figthing ring and Vick happenned to be there and was made an example of. That's just not the case. He ran a multi-state ring and lied about it, only showing any remorse when it was obvious they had him dead to rights. And we haven't even gotten to the torturing/killing part, and he's still guilty as hell.

The killing of the dogs is what sticks in my craw. Do you think the guy who drove drunk, hit his wife, etc. woke up in the morning with the conscious intent to do that? Do you think he was looking forward to it? Do you think he and his buddies routinely got together to do that for sport and recreation? The thing that separates Vick from the rest is the forethought and malice to do what he did, and in my mind that invalidates the "well, so and so did such and such" argument outright.

Has he paid his debt? Maybe? Does he have the right to earn a living? Sure. Is it sickening to see him put on a pedestal because he can run and throw a ball, and to hell with everything else about the man? Yeah, that bugs me.

Just my take; your mileage may vary.

ok but what does any of that have to do with football? if he was a guy working at burger king when he got caught.. and then when released he would go back to Burger king would that be bothering anyone? no, it's just cause he plays football that people care

what he did is unforgivable no doubt about it... and so is killing someone when you're drunk...you mean to tell me that person didn't know when they ordered those drinks that he was going to drive home? of course he did...


all I'm saying is one thing has nothing to do with the other, we're talking about football and the dog thing always comes up...if his stats were Peyton,Bree's or Rivers they'd be winning the MVP hands down

[megomania]

I'm puzzled by the constant comparisons of Vick to stuff other NFL players have done. The WR who got drunk and hit someone cooperated fully the entire way through, was genuinely remorseful (and NOT because/after he got caught), and even faced the family of the man he killed. Doesn't mean I don't think it was a terrible thing, but it doesn't compare to Vick's situation.

Vick didn't get two years for dogfighting- he got that sentence for FEDERAL conspiracy charges and he got a stiffer sentence because he initially LIED. People make it out like the cops busted a backyard figthing ring and Vick happenned to be there and was made an example of. That's just not the case. He ran a multi-state ring and lied about it, only showing any remorse when it was obvious they had him dead to rights. And we haven't even gotten to the torturing/killing part, and he's still guilty as hell.

The killing of the dogs is what sticks in my craw. Do you think the guy who drove drunk, hit his wife, etc. woke up in the morning with the conscious intent to do that? Do you think he was looking forward to it? Do you think he and his buddies routinely got together to do that for sport and recreation? The thing that separates Vick from the rest is the forethought and malice to do what he did, and in my mind that invalidates the "well, so and so did such and such" argument outright.

Has he paid his debt? Maybe? Does he have the right to earn a living? Sure. Is it sickening to see him put on a pedestal because he can run and throw a ball, and to hell with everything else about the man? Yeah, that bugs me.

Just my take; your mileage may vary.

How do you know Donte Stallworth wasn't 'remorseful' only because he was afraid Roger Goddell was going to ban him for life - or something close to it - from the NFL? Stallworth made enough money to hire a driver 24/7 for the rest of his life and he made a conscience decision to get in a car drunk, and kill a human being. In my personal opinion killing one human being is worse than killing animals.

What about Ray Lewis, arrainged on murder charges after two people were killed. He admitted to giving false information to police after being arrested and only escaped trial because he punked out and testified against his co-defendants.

Or Rae Carruth who hired a hitman to kill his pregnant girlfriend...

Or Tommy Kane who stabbed his wife to death...

I guess since no animals were harmed.....

The only reason people are ****ed at Michael Vick is because he is a celebrity who got caught. If he was a nobody who got busted no one would care.

[jimbutsu]

Couple things:

If he was some no-name that did this, he probably *couldn't* go back to a job at Burger King. As much as people love to talk about how rough poor Mike Vick has it, ask around about the employment prospects of someone fresh out of jail for the kind of stuff he did.

As for Ray Lewis, Ray Carruth, Tommy Kane... When I introduced them into my argument-- oh wait, I didn't ever bring up any of them because I wasn't talking about intent/forethougt/malice. Heck yes, I have a huge problem with them being put on a pedestal too.

As for only being upset because Vick is a celebrity, that's an incredibly baseless, ignorant thing to say. There's an (equally flawed) argument on the other side of that that says the only reason people rise to his defense is because he's a good ball player.

Donte Stallworth cooperated completely from the very first moment the accident happened and clearly had no forethought or intent- just terrible judgement. I just don't see the comparison.

[megoscott]

I'm puzzled by the constant comparisons of Vick to stuff other NFL players have done. The WR who got drunk and hit someone cooperated fully the entire way through, was genuinely remorseful (and NOT because/after he got caught), and even faced the family of the man he killed. Doesn't mean I don't think it was a terrible thing, but it doesn't compare to Vick's situation.

Vick didn't get two years for dogfighting- he got that sentence for FEDERAL conspiracy charges and he got a stiffer sentence because he initially LIED. People make it out like the cops busted a backyard figthing ring and Vick happenned to be there and was made an example of. That's just not the case. He ran a multi-state ring and lied about it, only showing any remorse when it was obvious they had him dead to rights. And we haven't even gotten to the torturing/killing part, and he's still guilty as hell.

The killing of the dogs is what sticks in my craw. Do you think the guy who drove drunk, hit his wife, etc. woke up in the morning with the conscious intent to do that? Do you think he was looking forward to it? Do you think he and his buddies routinely got together to do that for sport and recreation? The thing that separates Vick from the rest is the forethought and malice to do what he did, and in my mind that invalidates the "well, so and so did such and such" argument outright.

Has he paid his debt? Maybe? Does he have the right to earn a living? Sure. Is it sickening to see him put on a pedestal because he can run and throw a ball, and to hell with everything else about the man? Yeah, that bugs me.

Just my take; your mileage may vary.

Good take. Thanks.

[toys2cool]

everyone has a right to their opinion ,that's about all one can say

[Random Axe]

I wasn't a VIck fan before the dogfighting stuff. I still am not.

However, I don't think he's been given enough time to be passing judgement on him yet to see if he truly is a changed person. My gut feeling is he hasn't. That's just me. He was into a bunch of stuff before this all came crashing around him like the "ROn Mexico" fiasco and the marijuana in the thermos at the airport, so it's not like this came out of nowhere. There are, and should be, serious character questions regarding Mike Vick. I just don't think they can be answered just yet.

Stallworth's case is a little different. Any NFL player getting a DUI is beyond stupid, that's a fact. WHen he hit and killed this dude, it was dark, early in the morning and he was crossing a four lane highway on foot. Not smart. It could have been anyone in a car or truck who hit him, alcohol or not. My brother in law's first wife just hit and killed someone standing in the middle of a highway a few weeks back. It happens. Donte declined a trial, plead guilty, served the time he was given and made financial restitution to the family.

I'm not getting into the dogs vs. humans debate as both cases are, in the respective ways, both sad and pathetic. I'm just bringing a little perspective. Of course I'm probably wrong.

Scott

[Hector]

...and AGAIN...this is why Tom Brady has been so superior to Michael Vick this season...and why he will win the MVP in a runaway rout...

Brady, Patriots add to records in Sunday's win - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Having three more games played is nothing...the stats and record speaks for itself...

[toys2cool]

...and AGAIN...this is why Tom Brady has been so superior to Michael Vick this season...and why he will win the MVP in a runaway rout...

Brady, Patriots add to records in Sunday's win - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Having three more games played is nothing...the stats and record speaks for itself...

no doubt he deserves it as well, but take Brady away from NE and they still win, take Vick out and you see what happens...that's an MVP in my book but if either one wins it, it'll be well deserved

[Hector]

So you are saying Vick is a better QB than Brady?

Is that what you are saying?

Vick is a better athlete...but not a better QB...he's too erratic to be consistent.

[Hector]

[MIB41]

It's the most valuable "player", not most valuable "team". You take the QB away from most teams and the group gets weaker. Actually the Patriots are no exception to that. Did you see that backup? Is it any wonder Brady played most of the game? What they have most is momentum. Put a guy like Moss back on the team and morale dips. Speaking of which, can we hand out a most un-valuable player award? That would be sweet.

[The Bat]

...and AGAIN...this is why Tom Brady has been so superior to Michael Vick this season...and why he will win the MVP in a runaway rout...

Brady, Patriots add to records in Sunday's win - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Having three more games played is nothing...the stats and record speaks for itself...

Hell yeah Hector!! You'll get no argument from me!

[Hector]

[toys2cool]

So you are saying Vick is a better QB than Brady?

Is that what you are saying?

Vick is a better athlete...but not a better QB...he's too erratic to be consistent.

at this point I'd take Vick over Brady ,put Vick with Brady's o-line and see how he'd do, put Brady with Vicks o-line and he would'nt do jack

[Hector]

You just hate the Pats...lol...