Wow things have changed on TV

[megoscott]

If you are limiting yourself to network TV, then yes, things are much more tame---and I would blame corporate stupidity and lack of vision before I'd blame the "PC Police".

HOWEVER. There are lots of shows around that are doing some really bold and funny work that is not at all politically correct. But a few examples....

South Park---has been skewering EVERYONE for 10 years now? Hardly shackled by PC, they make their bread and butter by opposing PC whenever they can.
The Sarah Silverman Show--Routinely offensive, shocking comedy playing with racism, anti-semitism, homophobia
Louie on FX---has had some amazing episodes dealing with black/white sexual issues, gay straight relations, left vs right political stuff.

Just the tip of the iceberg. If anything, there are more creative people pushing the boundaries more than ever. A lot of that television in the 70s is due to Norman Lear's influence, which was awesome and groundbreaking, but also ended up being the height of network boldness in many ways. Ten years later you've got Cliff Huxtable in a sweater.

I think it's a cliche that political correctness is strangling expression, if anything the backlash against it is leading to some great work, as well as some pretty unfortunate stuff too.

[Brazoo]

If you are limiting yourself to network TV, then yes, things are much more tame---and I would blame corporate stupidity and lack of vision before I'd blame the "PC Police".

HOWEVER. There are lots of shows around that are doing some really bold and funny work that is not at all politically correct. But a few examples....

South Park---has been skewering EVERYONE for 10 years now? Hardly shackled by PC, they make their bread and butter by opposing PC whenever they can.
The Sarah Silverman Show--Routinely offensive, shocking comedy playing with racism, anti-semitism, homophobia
Louie on FX---has had some amazing episodes dealing with black/white sexual issues, gay straight relations, left vs right political stuff.

Just the tip of the iceberg. If anything, there are more creative people pushing the boundaries more than ever. A lot of that television in the 70s is due to Norman Lear's influence, which was awesome and groundbreaking, but also ended up being the height of network boldness in many ways. Ten years later you've got Cliff Huxtable in a sweater.

I think it's a cliche that political correctness is strangling expression, if anything the backlash against it is leading to some great work, as well as some pretty unfortunate stuff too.

I think you're right about the talent pool to some degree - but I do think TV in the mid 80s to mid 90s did adopt PC policies that stifled creativity too. I don't think it was because of external PC policing (though that might have been an influential aspect) I think it was because all successful shows tried to appeal to the widest possible audience - networks thought that by adopting PC policies their shows could gain a wider audience of viewers.

For some reason the first example that popped into my head was "ALF". In the first block of episodes ALF was a lot nastier and slightly funnier - when the show was a hit they clearly wrote him much more tame and as a consequence the jokes got even weaker.

Now that we have so many more networks TV shows NEED to have more variety and find more specific audiences, and that's why we're getting all these sharper and riskier shows.

Either way, any show that addresses racial issues is always going to have critics. "Sandford and Son" was criticized because the characters were too flawed, "The Cosby Show" was criticized because the characters were too perfect. Now shows don't have to make EVERYONE happy - just people in the target demographic.

[ctc]

>I do think TV in the mid 80s to mid 90s did adopt PC policies that stifled creativity

TV has NEVER been about creativity. Check out any given family sitcom.... they're all pretty much the same. Or any cop show, detective show, soap opera.... Softening a show is usually an attempt to expand the potential viewer base.

....and anyone who misses good ol' fashioned tv racism just has to watch an episdoe of "Til Death."

Don C.

[Lonestarhobbies]

Which, I guess I am okay with but I am not so sure how a brief blackface gag and Mammy sounding like Hattie McDanial would turn kids into little klanners.

I don't get it either. When I was a kid I watched hours and hours of these kinds of cartoons which were obviously from waaaay back. I never once thought about donning a white bedsheet and BBQ'ing a cross on someone's front lawn.


I'm a South Park fan for the most part-----some episodes are boring to me....but the majority are just down right outrageous

[Mikey]

The character of Archie Bunker actually reminded me of a couple of my older relatives (long deceased today).

I think All In The Family was a huge hit back in the day because almost everybody personally knew an Archie Bunker (or someone similar)...

Today people are a lot more mellow and there isn't as much blatant widespread bigotry out there ... So most of today's younger watchers would see Archie more of an outlandish clown with no hint of reality -- therefore they can't really "get" what the show was saying.

[apes3978]

Yeah, there's nothing that tells it like it is like all those "Very Special Episodes" of nearly every sitcom of their day... Nothing can tell it like it is like a serious topic and a punchline...

bring back the old days 70's and 80's when people told it like it is without being afraid thats why all those tv shows from those 2 decades are the best

[fallensaviour]

wow was i knocked back by the language he used,now he refers to chinese in a certain way he refers to black people a certain way and others.

Yes, I to grew up on these shows Sanford and son all in the family married with children.
I don't walk around slamming derogatory comments out.
I think the PC world can kiss my a to the double dollar signs.
They were characters flawed and human.

I was recently watching season 3 of starsky and hutch and they had a black-face scenario with huggy bear it was a funny bit not meant to be derogatory at all(the singing and limbo bit when they were on the island with the voodo guy).

It's sad they have to pc tv up that's one of my main gripes about star trek the next gen way too PC for my liking.

[Brazoo]

>I do think TV in the mid 80s to mid 90s did adopt PC policies that stifled creativity

TV has NEVER been about creativity. Check out any given family sitcom.... they're all pretty much the same. Or any cop show, detective show, soap opera.... Softening a show is usually an attempt to expand the potential viewer base.
Don C.

That was the exact point I was making.

The bottom line is viewers, not creativity. Like with all entertainment industries it is a balance though - you need creativity to gain viewers, but something too unusual is a hard sell for a wide audience.

My point before was that PC policies were a new way to ensure their products had wider appeal.

That's why I love TV now - so much competition that smaller networks can only make a dent in the market by producing highly creative shows. Their bottom line has switched from creating product ONLY for the mainstream to creating product that strongly appeal to valuable niche markets.

The way demographics are analyzed has reshaped the way network shows work too. For example, Leno gets the most viewers overall, but Letterman gets more viewers from a key demographic.

[Brazoo]

I think the PC world can kiss my a to the double dollar signs.

Sentence of the week!!!!!!!

[fallensaviour]

Sentence of the week!!!!!!!

I hope I wasn't "too PC"..?

[johnmiic]

These are 3 shows out of the multitude of shows on TV right now. When these shows were not on the air:

South Park
The Sarah Silverman Show
Louie on FX

I think the shows which had no sacred cows were:

The Simpsons
Married With Children
Picket Fences
Ren & Stimpy

And the most adult drama at the time was:

NYPD Blue

Again only a few shows out of so many which air on TV. In terms of comedy they pushed the envelope but NYPD Blue did not cause a revolution of more adult drama's to explode on TV and the language used would never be attempted by any other show. Even in this forum I cannot list the curse words which were introduced to TV without being censored. PC is partly to blame. I respect a lot of what George Carlin said about PC and how much B.S. it is.

I ask you to watch some episodes of Gimmie A Break with Nell Carter. I was shocked to see what the audience found funny in that show at times. Take All In The Family and Sandford & Son and I stand behind them because it seemed they were in tune with "the human condition" which shows like The Sopranos, The Wire and Deadwood were. Of all the shows in the 1970's I find the one which escapes most censorship is M.A.S.H. yet it should be the most controversial. M.A.S.H. remains timeless and gets very little backlash. Everyone seems to get it and how it illustrates the cost of war.

[jp1969]

Things sure have changed.
I have been collecting 60s FF comics and have been seeing the same things.
Reed almost always refers to Sue as woman, and is almost always at the point of slapping her.
Early james bond movies also show ways of dealing with women that would not fly today.
Yes , times have changed.