Bruno

[megomonkey]

Being the loudest, brashest, most crass kid at the lunch table wasn't funny to me in 7th grade, and isn't funny now.

In my opinion, the way Cohen keys in on and lampoons stereotypes (Muslim immigrants are sexist freaks, gays are over the top porn hounds, Southern people are rubes) is not a healthy part of societal dialogue. It simply heightens people's animosity towards them, and like many critics have already written, could result in worse backlashes towards those in his crosshairs.

Does he have a right to do so? Yes, without question. The questioning comes in when you note the millions who've seen the films already.

[Gorn Captain]

Really?
You don't have to calculate all that much to see the solid connection
darklord made between the two.

I hear you, and I don't disagree.
Sometimes it's hard to separate cause from effect.
Are kids getting ruder because of what they see on TV, or does TV reflect their disrespectful behaviour?

But sometimes a (certain degree of) disrespect is needed to shake some trees and expose the rotten fruit. To which extent? How far do you go?
Very hard to determine.
South Park is disrespectful.
Going back, so was Monty Python.

I'm for freedom of speech, and letting ADULTS make up their minds about it.
I'm not in favour of exposing kids to everything. They might adopt only the rude part, not see the social comment, and get worse because of that.

[huedell]

Being the loudest, brashest, most crass kid at the lunch table wasn't funny to me in 7th grade, and isn't funny now.

Yep, I didn't find it entertaining back then either.

That's the behavior of fools, bullies and insecure people...at ANY age.
I blame most of it on bad parenting/family environment.

In my opinion, the way Cohen keys in on and lampoons stereotypes (Muslim immigrants are sexist freaks, gays are over the top porn hounds, Southern people are rubes) is not a healthy part of societal dialogue. It simply heightens people's animosity towards them, and like many critics have already written, could result in worse backlashes towards those in his crosshairs.

Yep.
Hate breeds hate indeed.

If that's too strong for you..."Jerks breed jerks"

Does he have a right to do so? Yes, without question.

Unfortunately, in this great country of ours, things like "tact" and "respect
towards others" don't come included with "rights".

[Gorn Captain]

Does he have a right to do so? Yes, without question. The questioning comes in when you note the millions who've seen the films already.

True. Everybody knew Cohen because of Borat. His style is no surprise.
If I dislike Borat, and saw the previews to Brüno, I'd just not go.
If you find sprouts revolting, it's best not to eat them again....

[huedell]

I hear you, and I don't disagree.
Sometimes it's hard to separate cause from effect.
Are kids getting ruder because of what they see on TV, or does TV reflect their disrespectful behaviour?

That "stuff on TV" (any media we talk about here) doesn't help it,
that's for sure.

But sometimes a (certain degree of) disrespect is needed to shake some trees and expose the rotten fruit. To which extent? How far do you go?
Very hard to determine.
South Park is disrespectful.
Going back, so was Monty Python.

I'm not going to try to debate over Python vs. South Park.
I don't care for either all that much and it's not really connected
to what I was commenting on earlier in the thread.

I WILL say that Parker and Stone have made a living off of
"making fun of everybody" as people like to point out. Ohhhkay.

At least they are equal opportunist, but I find most
things I've watched by them to be all around-flat.
Being a fly in the ointment for the fly's sake, not the ointment's.
(If you're followeing my loose metaphor there!)

But again, my personal opinion on that isn't really all that relevant
to what I was discussing earlier.

I'm for freedom of speech, and letting ADULTS make up their minds about it.
I'm not in favour of exposing kids to everything. They might adopt only the rude part, not see the social comment, and get worse because of that.

THIS ^^^ is the most important thing...adults BETTER be doing their jobs
and carefully coralling their kids

There's too much crud out there not to....some of which I find
on the whole "irresponsible" for child OR adult viewer which is more what
this thread was about IMO.

[huedell]

True. Everybody knew Cohen because of Borat. His style is no surprise.
If I dislike Borat, and saw the previews to Brüno, I'd just not go.
If you find sprouts revolting, it's best not to eat them again....

Hmmmm...sounds like "a = a" there...I don't think that
was the point being made by megomonkey.

[alex]

Reading these posts, I think youre taking things a little to seriously, everyone knows whats right and whats wrong (I hope), so really, sit back and watch some completely outragious off the wall humour, and then just get back to your normal life, with no side effects.

[Gorn Captain]

[QUOTE=huedell;350755
THIS ^^^ is the most important thing...adults BETTER be doing their jobs
and carefully coralling their kids

There's too much crud out there not to....some of which I find
on the whole "irresponsible" for child OR adult viewer which is more what
this thread was about IMO.[/QUOTE]



You know, when I was a kid, we didn't get to see all this extreme stuff.
You had to be 16 at least to get into certain movies.
TV was "supervised watching".
"Extreme" stuff was really late on TV.

Now little kids can watch Hellraiser, "adult stuff", on TV, on the net, all day long, without parental supervision.

[darklord1967]

I hear you, and I don't disagree.
Sometimes it's hard to separate cause from effect.
Are kids getting ruder because of what they see on TV, or does TV reflect their disrespectful behaviour?

That's a great (philosophical) question... one that has been debated for many years.

I can tell you that I've seen enough in my life (and in our society) to have developed the opinion that it is in fact both.

I believe that what we have here is a never-ending self-destructive cycle of "entertainment" imitating life, and life imitating "entertainment".

The trouble is that as time passes, each seeks to TOP the other in terms of shock value, vulgarity, and outrageousness.

Yes "art" imitates life. But we've gotten to the point where life also imitates "art"... even with all of it's outlandish exaggerations created for the benefit of "comedic effect" or shock value.

Naturally, as time passes and art seeks to imitate life for a new generation of "works", it is often proceeding with a vulgar exaggeration of an already vulgar facet of reality.

On and on this process goes until what you have left is anarchy and self-destruction, I fear.

SIDE NOTE only slightly related: These exaggerations of art driving exaggerations of real-life are certainly NOT limited to the world of film.

I can remember back in the early 1990's's having a debate with someone about how the FASHION WORLD'S attempt to "push the envelope" of overtly sexually revealing clothing was going to keep spiraling out of control until these things became commonplace.

The person I spoke to vehemently disagreed with me, saying that there was "no evidence" that my dire predictions would ever come to pass.

Little did (even I) imagine that 15 or so years later, young men would consider it common urban fashion to wear their pants so low that the waist band would be positioned below their buttocks and genitals.

Little did (even I) imagine that young girls everywhere would look up to, admire, and even want to emulate a pop star that was brash enough and un-ladylike enough to climb out of a limo with legs spread apart so that paparazzi could get plenty of shots up her dress and advertise the fact that she was not wearing any panties.

I'm sure glad I'm not a parent in this day and age.

[darklord1967]

Reading these posts, I think youre taking things a little to seriously, everyone knows whats right and whats wrong (I hope), so really, sit back and watch some completely outragious off the wall humour, and then just get back to your normal life, with no side effects.

I wish it were that simple.

History, however, shows us that it is not.

People know what right and wrong? Really?

You can look at the condition that our country is in and say that with a straight face?

You can rest comfortably in the moral compass of a society where the conditions of vulgarity, cynicism, lack of compassion, and GREED have all run so wildly out of control that people by the thousands are losing their homes and pensions, and having their futures destroyed by wealthy bankers that pilfered their life savings?

You can believe in the basic wisdom of others when the children we raise go to school sometimes fearing for their lives?

Have you even looked on youtube and seen the countless posted schoolyard videos showing young people VIOLENTLY beating, kicking, throwing, thrashing, biting and scratching each other... or even violently mugging unsuspecting victims on camera... ALL FOR A LAUGH ? Or how about the vulgar videos (shot completely for 'laughs") where unspeakable things are done to (or placed into) people's food before it is served to them.

Forgive me if I do not agree with you.

To me, the saddest and most ironic part about all of this cultural degradation is that it is gradually making ME into a bitter individual... with the very same cynicism that I've always despised.

[JPkempo]

Have you even looked on youtube and seen the countless posted schoolyard videos showing young people VIOLENTLY beating, kicking, throwing, thrashing, biting and scratching each other... or even violently mugging unsuspecting victims on camera... ALL FOR A LAUGH ? Or how about the vulgar videos (shot completely for 'laughs") where unspeakable things are done to (or placed into) people's food before it is served to them.

In many cases the people in those videos are found and jailed as they should be.

[Gorn Captain]

In many cases the people in those videos are found and jailed as they should be.

That's good, but more importantly, we -the viewers- watch that kind of stuff for entertainment, and ASK to see it.
What kind of shows are popular these days?
The kind where people get "voted off", they're the "weakest link", "kicked out of the Big Brother house".
Negative shows.
"Most shocking videos."
"Dumbest criminals."

I rarely watch regular TV anymore. Why? Because it's stupid and negative.

My favourite show: My name is Earl.
Here's a guy who tries to be a positive example and make things better again. It's social satire-and positive message- at its best....

[huedell]

That's good, but more importantly, we -the viewers- watch that kind of stuff for entertainment, and ASK to see it.
What kind of shows are popular these days?
The kind where people get "voted off", they're the "weakest link", "kicked out of the Big Brother house".
Negative shows.
"Most shocking videos."
"Dumbest criminals."

I rarely watch regular TV anymore. Why? Because it's stupid and negative.
....

I guess I get your point...but if YOU don't watch it...
and posters like MYSELF don't watch it...
then why bother saying "we- the viewers" in the first place?

Just seemed an odd choice of words.

[wolfie]

It's only a film.

[Gorn Captain]

I guess I get your point...but if YOU don't watch it...
and posters like MYSELF don't watch it...
then why bother saying "we- the viewers" in the first place?

Just seemed an odd choice of words.

Well, I meant the majority of viewers, actually.
I rarely count myself among the majority.

So, "they-the viewers" might have been more accurate.....