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Calling anyone who is a gear-head or a mechanic type in here????

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  • Cosmicman
    Permanent Member
    • Jul 12, 2005
    • 4794

    Calling anyone who is a gear-head or a mechanic type in here????

    This might be a long shot. I have posted this on other boards.

    But...

    Are there any gear heads or people work on cars in here?

    I have a winter vehicle that is a four wheel drive 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee.
    6 cylinder engine.
    Here is what we are looking at basically....


    I was going down the road the other day and the vehicle starts sputtering and gagging and finally it comes to a stop. Trying to start it several times I come to the conclusion that everything is working fine and after trials and errors I have come to the conclusion something is keeping my fuel from getting to the main deal.

    So. Two options. Either a fuel filter or a fuel pump. After close examination I find out that the fuel filter is built into the fuel pump. So, I am going to have to replace the whole fuel pump. Drop the gas tank and all.

    Before I do this, is there any other ideas before I spend a whole day laying in my driveway? It is supposed to be up to 40 degrees, so I don't feel the cold weather is going to be a factor. I have a nice house with a garage I can pull it in if it gets to obnoxious.

    So, besides not looking forward to this, I just wanted to know if there was any gear heads on this board. Since this is the "General Buzz" I figured I might give it a shot.

    Someone talk to me.

    Thanks.

    Cat

    Last edited by Cosmicman; Feb 6, '09, 3:21 PM.
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  • kryptosmaster
    Removed.
    • Jun 14, 2008
    • 0

    #2
    Sounds like a fuel pump to me.
    My buddy said same thing.
    Of course that's barring any weird electrical concern but more likely pump.
    Rich
    Last edited by kryptosmaster; Feb 6, '09, 3:55 PM.

    Comment

    • Tyme2tyme
      Veteran Member
      • Apr 3, 2008
      • 418

      #3
      On most cars you can undo the fuel line near the engine to see if the pump is working. Just hold the end of the line in the opening of a 2 litre bottle or a plastic cup and have someone crank the engine. If it turns out to be the pump, Check to see if you can install an electric pump in-line under the car. Sometimes this can cure the problem (Check to see if the orginal pump is the type that allows you to do this, Some will let fuel through while others block the line when they die). There are other things that can cause sputtering and loss of power like that such as water in the fuel and trash in the lines assuming it's even fuel related (probably is). After that comes emission sensors or other such things. Good luck, JOHN
      Livin' the American Dream!

      Comment

      • Captain
        Fighting the good fight!
        • Jun 17, 2001
        • 6031

        #4
        You,ve come to the right place sir!

        Before you start swapping parts I suggest you check the engine codes. From what you've described it could be a filter or pump....but it might also be a failed sensor. If the MAP sensor or throttle position sensor go, it will also act like this....although, if its the MAP sensor it usually allows the vehicle to start, then kills it. There is also a neutral override switch on the transmission that can kill your fuel pump.
        If it is a sensor, you will go through the hassle of changing all these parts, and get no results. Plus, most sensors are located on the manifold or firewall, and are simple plug and run swaps.

        Being a 98 means your vehicle is OBD-II complient which may mean you have to get it checked with a code reader by the dealer (or else buy or borrow one). Most Chrysler products allow you to also pull out codes by doing the ol' key dance. Cycle the key between off and on (not start) 3 times, stopping on the on (accessory) position (off-on-off-on-off-on) and watch the check engine light. It will begin flashing out the codes--one flash-pause-three quick flashes is the number 13...and so on. If you dont get it at first just let it keep going, it will continue to cycle through the codes until you turn the key off.

        Some 98 vehicles have the two digit code system....and some have the 2,3 or 4 digit code system, so keep your eyes peeled. Once you have the codes, you can e-mail me and I'll translate them for you, or I'm sure you can find a converter chart on-line (ithink Allpar.com has them).

        good Luck!
        "Crayons taste like purple!"

        Comment

        • fallensaviour
          Talkative Member
          • Aug 28, 2006
          • 5620

          #5
          Undoing the fuel line and letting it fill a 2 litre bottle may not help you at all as sometimes the fuel pump will still work as long as its cooled down(by work I mean it will send some fuel not alot just enough to make you think it is working)
          Doesn't sound like TPS to me either.
          I would be inclined to beleive either filtre or pump either way you will most likely be dropping the tank to change it out.Yourself it is anywhere from $25 up to $70.
          Depending on the type of pump it takes.
          One question to ask is do you usually run it with under a quater tank often?
          Have you ever run out of gas with it?
          If you have ever ran it dry then more than likely it is pooched.

          Captain has hit it on the head though.OBD-II complient so cross your fingers and hope your buddy has reader($5000) so probably not but you never know ask around.
          This would make your assesment near perfect.

          Or try the key codes and look it up in a hanes manual you can get them at most libraries.

          Has it been kind of sputturing for awhile or is this the first time it happened?
          Cause it may also be your rubber timimg belt needs to be changed every 100000kms.
          This can also cause your vehicle to sputter and die.and then not start again.Plus screw up your head.So hope that's not it.You should be able to tell if you pull off your oil fill cap and have somebody turn over the vehicle.If the cams are rotating this is a OK.If not then you are screwed.

          Hope it works out for ya.I changed my fuel pump in june and ya its a pain in the butt.
          “When you say “It’s hard”, it actually means “I’m not strong enough to fight for it”. Stop saying its hard. Think positive!”

          Comment

          • BlackKnight
            The DarkSide Customizer
            • Apr 16, 2005
            • 14622

            #6
            I agree with what most have said here....
            I also wanted to throw the idea,.. that if your Vehicle Had a Distributor Cap, Spark Plugs, & wires.. it could most possibly be this.

            A Buddy of mine, last month was just driving down the road,.. & all of a Sudden his Chev s-10 just Quit. Just like that.., him not being mechanically inclined, Towed his Truck to the Shop..., they Replaced the Distributor Cap, Plugs & Wires... His car, However would not start again.

            I just changed a Fuel pump in my 90 Lumina.
            The problem I have with the Idea of it being a Fuel Pump,.. is from my Expierences,.. Once your Pump goes Bad,.. I have never thus far scene one Start again,.. nore sceen one shut a car off. Usally When a Pump goes Bad,.. when you shut your Car off,.. Thats it,.. you are not going to Start the Car again, until you replace the Pump.

            There is a Gauge, you can plug into the top of your Engine,.. near the Carb, or the Fuel injection ,.. Where you can test the level of gas that is getting to your Engine. I believe if it reads 25 Pounds,.. your in the Clear,.. you can also take the valve cap off,.. put a screw driver on the Tit, push it down,.. & start your vehicle,.. if gas shoots outta there,.. the pump is not your Problem.

            The leading cause of having Fuel Pump issues,.. is always driving around on a 1/4 of a tank of gas. The pump is Kinda like a Turkey Baster,.. if you will, think about the last bit of Juice you try & suck outta the pan,.. well thats your Pump with the Gas, pushing it to the Engine. Think about that over a period of time, driving up Hill's on a 1/4 of a tank of Gas.

            These are just my thoughts,.. it's difficult for me to truely assess the Problem,.. given I can't see the Vehicle.
            ... The Original Knight ..., Often Imitated, However Never Duplicated. The 1st Knight in Customs.


            always trading for Hot Toys Figures .

            Comment

            • kryptosmaster
              Removed.
              • Jun 14, 2008
              • 0

              #7
              Well the biggest problem is trying to diagnose something "over the phone".
              Unless you have that vehicle right in front of you it's kind of just educated guessing
              or if you are familiar with the type of vehicle then it's educated guessing with known concerns.
              Assuming there is no electrical problem (wiring/fuses/relays) you can also stick your ear
              against or close to the fuel tank and listen for the pump to come on while someone
              cycles the key. It will only come on for a few seconds when turning the key on so you
              have to turn the key off and wait a few seconds between tries but if you don't hear
              any humming or buzzing then it's probably the pump.
              Rich

              Comment

              • Cosmicman
                Permanent Member
                • Jul 12, 2005
                • 4794

                #8
                Wow. I got more intelligent responses from you guys on this board then I did on my mechanic board I sometimes go to. There is a reason why I love this board and it is because the majority of the people on here are smart and very wise when it comes to certain subjects.
                You guys pretty much all confirmed what my brother and I were sorta thinking.

                Thank you! Wish me luck tomorrow!!!
                Last edited by Cosmicman; Feb 6, '09, 7:40 PM.
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                Comment

                • rche
                  channeling Bob Wills
                  • Mar 26, 2008
                  • 7391

                  #9
                  Hiya wd,

                  If'n you can't find a code reader, some parts stores (like Autozone) will read the codes for you. I think they figure if they can tell you it is an O2 or MAP sensor, then you will buy it from them. Of course, if it don't move, then that is not an option.

                  good luck with it.
                  rche

                  Comment

                  • Cosmicman
                    Permanent Member
                    • Jul 12, 2005
                    • 4794

                    #10
                    Oh my god! I am so ****ing happy!

                    We figured out it wasn't the fuel pump. Then we narrowed it down to wire connection after trials and error. I stuck my head down into the engine to get a glimpse of the alternator and saw the severed spark plug wire that was cut in two by what appears to be just plain old wear and tear.

                    I went to Autozone and picked up a set of new wires and replaced them all. Recharged the battery and...

                    VAROOOOOOM! She fired up!


                    I didn't have to drop that damn gas tank and replace the fuel pump! Oh man I am so relieved. Dirty and messy looking but I am relieved!
                    Last edited by Cosmicman; Feb 7, '09, 7:59 PM.
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                    Comment

                    • kryptosmaster
                      Removed.
                      • Jun 14, 2008
                      • 0

                      #11
                      I'm surprised that just one broken/bad wire would cause the car to not run at all. They must have all been crap. Not sure why you said there was no fuel, though. If it was cranking over you should've still had fuel. Of course had you opened the hood while cranking it I'm sure there would've been quite a light show and the wire would've been pretty obvious at that point.

                      Rich

                      Comment

                      • fallensaviour
                        Talkative Member
                        • Aug 28, 2006
                        • 5620

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Wrathdemon
                        Oh my god! I am so ****ing happy!

                        We figured out it wasn't the fuel pump. Then we narrowed it down to wire connection after trials and error. I stuck my head down into the engine to get a glimpse of the alternator and saw the severed spark plug wire that was cut in two by what appears to be just plain old wear and tear.

                        I went to Autozone and picked up a set of new wires and replaced them all. Recharged the battery and...

                        VAROOOOOOM! She fired up!


                        I didn't have to drop that damn gas tank and replace the fuel pump! Oh man I am so relieved. Dirty and messy looking but I am relieved!
                        Hey awesome news for you congrats.That's strange though the car should still run even with a broken plug wire???
                        Just run really crappy.
                        “When you say “It’s hard”, it actually means “I’m not strong enough to fight for it”. Stop saying its hard. Think positive!”

                        Comment

                        • Tyme2tyme
                          Veteran Member
                          • Apr 3, 2008
                          • 418

                          #13
                          Of course had you opened the hood while cranking it I'm sure there would've been quite a light show and the wire would've been pretty obvious at that point.
                          OOOHHH! The arching fireworks show might have been grand!. Glad it's fixed, JOHN
                          Livin' the American Dream!

                          Comment

                          • fallensaviour
                            Talkative Member
                            • Aug 28, 2006
                            • 5620

                            #14
                            ArGHHHHHHHHHHHHHh!?!?!?!?!?

                            You freaking jinxed me!!!!!!!!!
                            I go out to start my van for work tonight and what do you think happened???
                            Nadda,zippo,zilch!!!!
                            ***!!!!!!!!!!!??????????
                            Now I have to look at it tomorrow in the freezing rain!!!!!!
                            Seriously!!!!!
                            “When you say “It’s hard”, it actually means “I’m not strong enough to fight for it”. Stop saying its hard. Think positive!”

                            Comment

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