A question about A Christmas Carol

[Mikey]

I was watching Scrooge last night -- The Albert Finney one, and every time I watch A Christmas Carol in almost any form I always ask myself this question ..

Ok, Marley is in hell ...
WHY would Satan let Marley out of hell to try and do good to help Scrooge ?
Is Marley getting something for helping Scrooge ?
If so, does that mean God made a deal with the devil to make this happen ?
I can't see the devil going along with this -- because there's clearly nothing in it for him.
If anything, the devil is losing on the whole deal.

m

[StrangeVisitor]

In the original story, Marley isn't is Hell, he's doomed to walk the Earth (like Kwai Chang Caine):
"It is required of every man", the Ghost returned, "that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellowmen, and travel far and wide; and if that spirit goes not forth in life, it is condemned to do so after death. It is doomed to wander through the world—oh, woe is me!—and witness what it cannot share, but might have shared on earth, and turned to happiness!"

Regarding the theology of the 1970 movie, assuming Marley was in Hell... well that's a toughie but here's a couple thoughts:
a) It may be because Satan isn't "in charge" of anything, he's merely the most infamous prisoner in Hell.
b) Maybe Satan doesn't believe that Scooge can change & Marley's warning will just make Scooge suffer more.
c) Maybe Hell is something we create for ourselves: "I wear the chain I forged in life", replied the Ghost. "I made it link by link, and yard by yard; I girded it on of my own free will, and of my own free will I wore it. Is its pattern strange to you?"
d) It's all a dream (aka the Dallas cop-out):
"a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!"

[kingdom warrior]

Without trying to break the rules of the forum. Just to Clear things up. Hell is not Satan's Domain. he doesn't own it or is his hangout.

Hell is a place prepared for him and his followers.

From my understanding Marley is just walking the earth......and is trying to warn Scrooge not to be like him......

[ctc]

>WHY would Satan let Marley out of hell to try and do good to help Scrooge ?

Hmmmm.... properly, according to most western theologies once you're in Hell you're there for good. But if Marley's spirit is still capable of walking the Earth then he hasn't actually passed on. He may consider this state of non-existence Hell.

....OR.... if he was condemned to Purgatory (which not all Christian sects believe in; but we're not sure what denomination Marley is....) it's possible that appearing to Scrooge is part of his punishment. (If you're in Purgatory you'll EVENTUALLY get into Heaven, after repenting.)

....OR.... Scrooge could have had a malignant tumor in his frontal lobes that caused him to imagine the whole thing, and his transformation to nice guy at the end is part of it.

But I think the last one sort of takes away from the story....

Don C.

[Seeker]

When ever I watch it I would always hope Marley would pop in with the other ghost and the end ,Ala Return of the Jedi, redeemed for his good deed.

[huedell]

When ever I watch it I would always hope Marley would pop in with the other ghost and the end ,Ala Return of the Jedi, redeemed for his good deed.

It indeed does happen in SCROOGED (John Forsyth's character).

[huedell]

>WHY would Satan let Marley out of hell to try and do good to help Scrooge ?

....OR.... Scrooge could have had a malignant tumor in his frontal lobes that caused him to imagine the whole thing, and his transformation to nice guy at the end is part of it.

But I think the last one sort of takes away from the story....

heh-heh

I like your posts Don.

This thread, too, I think is pretty cool Mike----I'm a big fan of this story.

[Seeker]

Actually I heard the whole scrooge story was thought up by an Autistic kid playing with a snow globe.

[JPkempo]

The dickens you say....

Condemned to walk the earth - this could be a type of purgatory.
God and the Devil / heaven and hell neither is in the story, seems Dickens danced around he hole thing, probably so as not to get in trouble with any church or religion.
Face it he wanted to sell his story and make money, ****ing of a religion would not sell books. So as the great writer he was he avoided the hole thing.

[huedell]

^^^Certainly---and it's not like a "walking the Earth" purgatory is that uncommon---it's in many works of literature and entertainment---
the Swayze GHOST character was quite simillar.

[Mikey]

In the 70's movie (at the end) Marley was clearly in hell ... Even showing Scrooge where his quarters will be.

Also, if Marley is in hell, why is he wearing chains for being bad ?
Wouldn't Satan love him for that ?
Same with Scrooge
I mean what the HELL do you have to do to get on the devil's good side ?

[huedell]

In the 70's movie (at the end) Marley was clearly in hell ... Even showing Scrooge where his quarters will be.

Also, if Marley is in hell, why is he wearing chains for being bad ?
Wouldn't Satan love him for that ?
Same with Scrooge
I mean what the HELL do you have to do to get on the devil's good side ?

Didn't see the movie---but it SOUNDS like they were just
heaping on bad "Hellish" things---"having fun" with "Hell"---etc etc.
---i.e. not too much serious logical thought went into it.

[JPkempo]

We all no how a screen writer can kill a good story. Sounds like this 70s version did just that.

Between tv and movies has any other christmas story been retold and changed around.

[huedell]

Between tv and movies has any other christmas story been retold and changed around.

A CHRISTMAS CAROL is so perfect for Christmas it's too hard NOT to rewrite
when you're thinking of a good Christmastime story...I know that from
personal experience

If you don't consider HOW THE GRINCH... to be too far off the mark---
the Scrooge story gets told again and again---a curmudgeon's
frosty heart being warmed by the joy that the "Christmas spirit" brings.

[Captain]

d) It's all a dream (aka the Dallas cop-out):
"a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!"

Maybe the book/movie should have ran a bit longer....?

"...and...I'm going to raise your salary....BRAAAAAARP! Wheww...Oh man that certainly feels better! I have got to stop eating that day old gruel.Gives me awful gas, and the nightmares...."
"Now where were we Cratchit? Oh yes....Get your lazy butt out of here you useless coalburning fool! What do you mean showing up here at this hour! I can get a monkey to do your job better for less wages and fewer problems. Maybe I'll hire that lame kid of yours...bet he'll work cheap ehh Cratchit?"