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'The Doors' get sued!

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  • Cosmicman
    Permanent Member
    • Jul 12, 2005
    • 4794

    'The Doors' get sued!


    The end is near for a bitter legal dispute between the three surviving members of the Doors now that the California Supreme Court in San Francisco has refused to take up their case.

    Keyboardist Ray Manzarek and guitarist Robby Krieger are on the hook for more than $5 million after they were found by lower courts to have improperly invoked the Doors' name and images during a 2003 concert tour. After the high court declined to hear their appeal Aug. 13, they'll have to pay up to drummer John Densmore, the parents of deceased lead singer Jim Morrison and the parents of Morrison's deceased wife, Pamela Courson, who died in 1974.

    The case goes back to 2002, when Densmore declined an offer from the other two to go on a concert tour as the Doors. Densmore said he didn't object to Manzarek and Krieger touring and singing the Doors' songs, as long as they didn't call themselves the Doors, use the group's distinctive logo or any other Morrison-era imagery.

    "You can't call yourselves the Doors because you can't have the Doors without Jim Morrison," said Densmore's attorney, S. Jerome Mandel.

    Densmore and the parents sued Manzarek and Krieger in 2003 after the two began touring the country with Ian Astbury, former lead singer of the Cult, and calling themselves the Doors of the 21st Century.

    Densmore complained that the phrase "of the 21st Century" was often little more than fine print in advertisements and that the new band displayed Morrison's image dozens of times during concerts. The tour grossed $8 million and netted $3.2 million, which went to the new band's company, called Doors Touring Inc., and none of which went to Densmore or the parents.

    In 2005, a judge ordered the new band to stop using "the Doors" in any form and ordered Manzarek and Krieger to pay Densmore and the parents a combined $3.2 million, plus $2 million in legal costs.

    An appeals court upheld the $3.2 million award, and is considering Manzarek and Krieger's appeal of the $2 million in legal costs as excessive.

    "It's really disappointing," said lawyer Mark Poster, who represented Manzarek and Krieger. He said the two pursued the appeal so vigorously because the judge had overruled a jury decision in awarding Densmore damages.

    The dispute stems from a 1970 agreement signed by the four original band members saying that any business deal would require an unanimous vote.

    Since Morrison's death in 1971, the remaining band members and the parents split Morrison's share of the sale of the Doors' music and memorabilia.

    The band had hits in the 1960s including "Break on Through," "L.A. Woman" and "Riders on the Storm."

    Manzarek and Krieger now call themselves Riders on the Storm and continue to perform the Doors' songs live.


    The California Supreme Court also has declined to take up a case involving the three surviving members of the Doors over the band’s name and image, The Associated Press reported Friday. At issue is more than $5 million that the keyboardist Ray Manzarek and the guitarist Robby Krieger are said to owe the drummer John Densmore and others, after Mr. Manzarek and Mr. Krieger were found by lower courts to have improperly used the band’s image and name during a 2003 concert tour. On Aug. 13 the high court declined to hear their appeal, which means that the two men will have to pay the amount to Mr. Densmore as well as to the parents of the group’s lead singer, Jim Morrison, who died in 1971, and the parents of Morrison’s wife, Pamela Courson, who died in 1974. The case goes back to 2002, when Mr. Densmore gave permission to Mr. Manzarek and Mr. Krieger to perform the Doors’ songs but prohibited them from calling themselves the Doors and from using the group’s logo or any other Morrison imagery. The dispute began after Mr. Manzarek and Mr. Krieger began to tour under the name the Doors of the 21st Century. In 2005 a judge ordered them to stop using the Doors name in any form. Mr. Manzarek and Mr. Krieger now call their group Riders on the Storm, the title of a Doors song.
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  • MarkStalcup
    Chases Ambulances,Customs
    • Feb 6, 2008
    • 120

    #2
    Back from the Dead...

    I always hated how they went on without Morrison. Just didn't seem like the Doors, especially since they all stuck together when he was around.
    Last edited by MarkStalcup; Aug 24, '08, 1:06 PM. Reason: Posted in wrong thread
    “As human beings we all want to be happy and free from misery… we have learned that the key to happiness is inner peace. The greatest obstacles to inner peace are disturbing emotions such as anger, attachment, fear and suspicion, while love and compassion and a sense of universal responsibility are the sources of peace and happiness.” - The Dalai Lama

    Comment

    • apes3978
      Talkative Member
      • Nov 19, 2005
      • 5112

      #3
      Originally posted by MarkStalcup (or Voodoo)
      I always hated how they went on without Morrison. Just didn't seem like the Doors, especially since they all stuck together when he was around.
      At least those guys were there for the whole time with Morrison... I think it's okay that they tour(ed), because they were there from the start and throughout the whole time with Jim (and even the album they did after his death...)

      It's not like they're two guys that were replacements of original members, or only short term members, they were "lifers" so that gives them the right to keep their music alive...

      Comment

      • MarkStalcup
        Chases Ambulances,Customs
        • Feb 6, 2008
        • 120

        #4
        True, but I like the idea of a band being all chemistry...the Beatles audio-reunion where they took a Lennon solo track was one thing, but as much as I love the Doors - and they are one of my favorite bands - I never wanted to see Manzarek and Krieger with Ian Astbury, though he is a good singer. It seemed like Manzarek especially got really money-hungry the past few years - his novel about a Morrison-esque singer who fakes his death is horrible - and it really didn't seem worthy of a great band to do what they did. Some things should just end in their time. The music lives on.
        “As human beings we all want to be happy and free from misery… we have learned that the key to happiness is inner peace. The greatest obstacles to inner peace are disturbing emotions such as anger, attachment, fear and suspicion, while love and compassion and a sense of universal responsibility are the sources of peace and happiness.” - The Dalai Lama

        Comment

        • Cosmicman
          Permanent Member
          • Jul 12, 2005
          • 4794

          #5
          Originally posted by MarkStalcup (or Voodoo)
          True, but I like the idea of a band being all chemistry...the Beatles audio-reunion where they took a Lennon solo track was one thing, but as much as I love the Doors - and they are one of my favorite bands - I never wanted to see Manzarek and Krieger with Ian Astbury, though he is a good singer. It seemed like Manzarek especially got really money-hungry the past few years - his novel about a Morrison-esque singer who fakes his death is horrible - and it really didn't seem worthy of a great band to do what they did. Some things should just end in their time. The music lives on.
          Raymond Manzarek needs to eat. He isn't pumping out the number one singles like he used to in the day. He doesn't exactly fit McDonalds material. So, he has to fall back on something or do something that he has always done, music and writing. Money hungry? I wouldn't call Manzarek that. He is a good businessman and he likes to earn a profit or two.
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          • apes3978
            Talkative Member
            • Nov 19, 2005
            • 5112

            #6
            Originally posted by MarkStalcup (or Voodoo)
            True, but I like the idea of a band being all chemistry...the Beatles audio-reunion where they took a Lennon solo track was one thing, but I never wanted to see Manzarek and Krieger with Ian Astbury.
            Regarding the "audio-reunion thing: I'd have to double check that one DOORS greatest hits CD I have, but I'm 90% sure that one of those tracks on there is actually Jim reading one of his poems and it is set to music played by the three surviving members... It's actually even better than the Beatles and "Free as a Bird" because they weren't working with a "demo" that needed a lot of cleaning up audio-wise...

            Originally posted by Wrathdemon
            Raymond Manzarek needs to eat. He isn't pumping out the number one singles like he used to in the day. He doesn't exactly fit McDonalds material. So, he has to fall back on something or do something that he has always done, music and writing. Money hungry? I wouldn't call Manzarek that. He is a good businessman and he likes to earn a profit or two.
            You're right that he has to earn a living, but being that The Doors music still sells really well and "The Doors" seem to be in all of the writing credits, rather than just a member or two (and going by that I'd guess he gets at least 25% of royalities), I'm sure he's not hurting moneywise... But let's say he really didn't need to ever make another dime in his life, as long as what he is doing now is good and/or "valid" he shouldn't have to stop being creative because he's got money... You can't just stop doing what you've always done because someone might shake a stick at you and call you "greedy"...

            Comment

            • huedell
              Museum Ball Eater
              • Dec 31, 2003
              • 11069

              #7
              What apes said here:
              But let's say he really didn't need to ever
              make another dime in his life, as long as what he is doing now is good and/or "valid" he shouldn't have to stop being creative because he's got
              money... You can't just stop doing what you've always done because
              someone might shake a stick at you and call you "greedy"...
              is pretty much my stance.

              I support anything an artist can get away with legally in this regard.

              I live and die by the music I like---BUT---I don't agonize over how it's
              marketed.
              "No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris Mannix

              Comment

              • nvmbrsdoom5
                Persistent Member
                • Mar 1, 2005
                • 1627

                #8
                A few sidenotes to this too....

                -Densmore can make public statements about how the band shouldn't continue on because it's not really the Doors without Jim, however John participated in post-Jim Doors activity for many years. He gladly participated in the VH1 Storytellers show in 2001, with a myriad of different vocalists stepping in for Jim. Suddenly in '03 he has some huge moral issue with the band performing with a replacement singer? Hmmm.

                -Densmore has become very vocal in recent years about preserving the spirit and legacy of Morrison and not wanting to taint it in any way. Yet by many accounts it's said that he and Morrison were the ones who butted heads the most during their heyday, and in many interviews and in his own autobiography he's had some bitter statements to make regarding Jim.

                -Densmore was a willing consultant (as was Krieger) on Olver Stone's film, whereas Manzarek was strongly against it, and felt that Stone's portrayal of Jim and the events surrounding the band painted Jim in an unrealistic and unflattering way. Some have said that Ray seems quite willing to milk the past for cash, but I think Ray has always been very respectful of Jim and tried to make it known that Jim was a loving, caring friend and more than just the drugged-out now mythical "Lizard King".

                The bottom line for me is this....if Manzarek and Krieger want to go out and call themselves "Doors Of the 21st Century" or "Riders On The Storm" and be their own tribute act, then so be it. It's unfortunate that some contract between the band from nearly 40 years ago is causing them grief now because Densmore didn't want to be involved. Furthermore, he can try coming off as righteous and talk about how he disapproves of using the old name or Jim's likeness, etc etc., but the bottom line here is money. He wants money, the Morrisons and Coursons want money, and so forth. And that's fine, if the law says they're entitled to their fare share, then so be it. I just hate when guys like John Densmore try to come off so self-righteous when the truth is, he's just as "greedy" as Manzarek or Krieger or any of 'em.

                One more thing....the article says he "declined" the offer to join the reunion in 2003. However I've read other articles where John claimed at the time that he "was never even asked to rejoin for the reunion." So which is it, John? LOL Perhaps his spite regarding not being asked to play, in favor of asking Stewart Copeland instead, also spurred on his decision to sue?

                For the record, I've never gone to see Riders On The Storm play. I am a huge Doors fan but for me personally I just have no interest in seeing this. But I don't begrudge others for enjoying it, nor begrudge the band for doing it.

                Comment

                • palitoy
                  live. laugh. lisa needs braces
                  • Jun 16, 2001
                  • 59794

                  #9
                  I am a huge Doors fan, I will admit that Ray Manzarek used to turn me off a little with what seemed like his endless shilling. Having said that, I don't really have a problem with the concept of the "New Doors", I checked it out myself.

                  Anybody going to see that show knows they're not getting the original frontman, so it's not like they're ripping off the public like so many other bands.


                  PS I hated it.
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                  • MarkStalcup
                    Chases Ambulances,Customs
                    • Feb 6, 2008
                    • 120

                    #10
                    I guess I should make it clear that I'm a mark for the Doors stuff. I was told by my brother that the remasters were amazing, and, on one listen, loved them and rebought all the new masters of stuff I already bought on CD, then in the box set. The new mixes are amazing, and I like them a great deal...they are the one instance where it wasn't all just hype. You actually hear new stuff. And I have snagged the concert discs as I become aware of them...

                    I even have the two Doors CDs without Morrison, "Other Voices" and "Full Circle." And Ray's voice doesn't suck...I'd have bought a CD with them as a trio, because I like the whole "All for one, one for all" notion the band endorsed, in the same way it bummed me out R.E.M. didn't break up as promised when Bill Berry quit. Have they made good music since? Yeah, but I miss Bill Berry, and they're not the same band without him.

                    It's also true Densmore was adversarial to Morrison, and that some of the stuff the Doors have done is quite good since Morrison died (?) - I love, for example, the new mix of "Roadhouse Blues" that added John Lee Hooker's vocals. But lately, Ray Manzarek, who did seem like Jim Morrison's truest friend, has seemed to step over the line a bit much into rampant shilling, and that kind of irks me.

                    I mean that novel, "The Poet in Exile?" Man, you want a raging ball of suckitude...worst book I have read in a long while. A thinly veiled Manzarek finds a thinly veiled Morrison who faked his death living on a tropical island. They plan a reunion, but wait! The erstatz Morrison has cancer, and will die soon. So see, he's really dead, kids.

                    Heck, man. "Eddie and the Cruisers" did that idea better.

                    None of the band is hurting for money...I have a general idea from a music industry friend what their royalties are for sales and merchandise, and the Doors, an inactive band, still sell millions of dollars worth of records, t-shirts and so forth annually...they're up there with the Stones, Beatles, Led Zep, Guns n Roses and so forth...so anything they do now could just taint a band I love, if it is done for the wrong reasons.

                    America: The land where if we can market it to death, we shall.
                    “As human beings we all want to be happy and free from misery… we have learned that the key to happiness is inner peace. The greatest obstacles to inner peace are disturbing emotions such as anger, attachment, fear and suspicion, while love and compassion and a sense of universal responsibility are the sources of peace and happiness.” - The Dalai Lama

                    Comment

                    • goldenryan
                      coy member
                      • Jul 13, 2007
                      • 1467

                      #11
                      yeah most bands careers never recover from their lead singers death.
                      new order became famous after ian curtis died but thats about it.

                      Comment

                      • huedell
                        Museum Ball Eater
                        • Dec 31, 2003
                        • 11069

                        #12
                        America: The land where if we can market it to death, we shall.
                        People say that like it's a "sin". I say "big deal".

                        To me---this is one of the things that makes this country great---
                        and any other country that supports such values.

                        To the winner go the spoils.

                        And if ya don't like it----don't buy it.
                        "No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris Mannix

                        Comment

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