Secret Identity and Alter Ego talk

[twilitezoner]

I was watching some of the Fleischer cartoons from the early Forties and it was definitely established in those intros that Superman is "disguised as Clark Kent".

It says the same thing during the opening of the 50s TV show.

YouTube - '50s Adventures of Superman - Intro

[thunderbolt]

The silver age versions of Hawkman and Hawkgirl took the identities of Carter and Shiera Hall to operate on earth as Thanagarian police hunting down the criminal Byth.

[saildog]

Batman/Bruce Wayne is the one I can't quite nail down.

Certainly, what happened to Bruce Wayne made Bruce Wayne become Batman. However, "Bruce Wayne" is an act..."Batman" is not.

Bruce Wayne is Batman. Bruce Wayne's "mask" is playboy/philanthropist.

[huedell]

I think Clark is Superman's Alter Ego, not the other way around. Batman is Bruce's Alter Ego. I think both would like it to be the other way around, which is somewhat the definition of an alter ego to me.

Alotta wisdom---and I'd say "truth" to this statement^^^.

and...

Superman has to HIDE his powers in "civilian" type clothing to be "Clark",
while Bruce has to DRESS in armor/weaponry to become "Batman".

[saildog]

Alotta wisdom---and I'd say "truth" to this statement^^^.

and...

Superman has to HIDE his powers in "civilian" type clothing to be "Clark",
while Bruce has to DRESS in armor/weaponry to become "Batman".

I get this, but doesn't Bruce Wayne have to restrain himself when he is "Bruce Wayne". Don't you think he would rather be Batman 24/7? So what he has armor (as of late) and weaponry/gadgets? They are an extension of who he is and what he wants to accomplish. Bruce Wayne ain't got no utility belt because "Bruce Wayne" is an afterthought to the man on a mission and the mission defines the man.

[saildog]

Can someone help me figure this out?

I'm starting to think that all "civilian identities" mask the hero, which is the true self.

Seriously, we all ACT on who we really are.

Don't let the disguise throw you off. We all "mask" ourselves in some way.

Here's the definitive moment for Batman (I think). Remember in Batman Begins when Ra's Al Ghul (Liam Neeson) shows up at Bruce Wayne's birthday party? Did "Bruce" not put on an act (by pretending to be drunk and angry at his guests) to get them out of harm's way?

[huedell]

saildog---you can theorize either way on this particular debate
and there's no "right" answer.

I still stand by the fact that you are "born" a certain way---"wired" a certain way
---and the more you go against that----or try to hide "that" for GOOD or BAD
reasons---you are in the process of creating an "alter-ego".

Bruce was a silver spooner born into the lap of luxury who BECAME a dark knight
superhero to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish.

Kal-El was a Kryptonian who ended up on Earth and BECAME a mild-mannered news reporter
to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish.

That's how I SEE it...doesn't mean it's the definitive answer.

Even the creators of those heroes...their answer... wouldn't be partcularly definitive.

[GreenLantern9999]

I would say that each has a third personality who they really are and they have to act in both directions. The person they really are is the one at the end of the day my two favorite Alex Ross Paintings Illustrate this quite nicely one has Clark Kent looking rather tired sitting in a chair at home with his shirt unbuttoned and you can see the Superman outfit underneath. It shows that yeah part of him is Clark Kent there is part of him that wishes he could just be in love with Lois and raise a normal family and have a normal life, and not be so bumbling. He is often hindered by being Clark because he needs to hide the Superman part of him. But he can never turn his back on the world so part of him will alway be Superman. Even though being Superman hinders his identity as Clark Kent as often as the other way. In the normal things that he wishes he could have. So in this case I would say that Clark/Superman is the best parts of both of the people he plays. Now Batman is a little tougher but his painting is of Bruce with his shirt off you see his back to you and he is all scarred up and down (like in the movie but worse) In this we see that Batman is all but invincible but Bruce caries the scars So I don't think one could exist with out the other. So again the real Bruce/Batman is more like an in between but I feel like Bruce is much more of an act then batman is.

[Riffster]

what about heroes that can't hide who they are, Jade or Starfire, Hank mcoy(Beast)

or now Diana Prince is a mask for Wonder Woman to become more human

[madmarva]

This is a good question, but it's rather subjective.

Characters like Superman and Batman and their alter egos have been written in many different ways over the years and as readers we kind of draw our own interpretations off what's been on the page or screen.

In Nolan's Batman films, Bruce sees Alfred as a mentor or trusted friend whom he can he can share his feelings with. There is a friendship. But for the last 18 to 20 years in. the comics, it's not quite that way.

While Alfred did raise Bruce and there is a trust there, Batman is often depicted as using Alfred as a tool, just like he did Dick, Jason and now with Tim, not as as trusted confidant.

In the 1970s and early 1980s, the Alfred/Bruce/Batman relationship was more like it is detailed in Nolan's films. and that's how I like the relationship. Bruce is not crazy, but he does do some crazy things as Batman. He's also the most driven and determined man in the universe. But he's not crazy. He's in control and there is a reason for everything he does.

Similarly with Superman, in the pre-crisis era Superman/Kal-El was the real guy and Clark was a facade. Byrne's revision had Clark being who the real guy and Superman being a public role he played, but there wasn't a ton of difference in their personalities. There really was no Kal-el post crisis because he learned his true origins after he was an adult and had already become Superman.

Currently, the writers are doing more of a silver-age spin, with Superman being the guy and Clark being the disguise again. Clark is becoming more klutzy. He's the butt of jokes, he's ill and has to take the day off, so he can be Superman. I think they are ignoring that he was a football star in high school like in post-crisis continuity. I don't see much difference in the way the character is portrayed when he is with Lois or when he is functioning as Superman.

While I love the silver-age Superman, I personally prefer the Byrne version, where Superman isn't an alien and doesn't feel alienated or isolated by the tragedy of Krypton's destruction because he was raised by the Kents.

He isn't the alien creature that Lex Luthor fears him to be.

With the Green Lanterns, they are who they are whether on duty or not. Hal is Hal, Kyle is Kyle, John is John and Guy is Guy. They are like cops. Pretty much the same in or out of the uniform. They aren't trying to inspire like Superman or create fear like Batman. They are performing a duty. I think the Flashes are similar.

[jds1911a1]

there have been some heroes who served in heroic "jobs" and used the mask to do what would bring retribution (Daredevil, Dc's the guardian, Iron Fist, Green Arrow) and lest we forget Steve Rogers long before he was captain america the frail boy risked everyitn including his life just to make a difference. In the golden age it was more common for the hero and the man to act the same (except for Bats and superman) think of Jay Garrick's Flash, Alan Scott, wildcat, and during the war even Clark shows a backbone in his clark disguise.

[The Bat]

the real Bruce is the guy sitting in the Batcave, wearing a turtleneck and glasses, staring at the computer and trying to figure out his next move; Batman and bored/uninterested Bruce are disguises. Keaton deserves points for solidifying that, even if the comic writers haven't figured it out yet . . .

That's funny...in all the years I've read Batman...I don't ever remember Him wearing Glasses......I thought that was Clark Kent.

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Guessing he's referring to Micheal Keaton.

[Riffster]

^^ Val kilmer did it too, when he was touring the lab and met with Nigma

[The Bat]

^^ Val kilmer did it too, when he was touring the lab and met with Nigma

I think You Guys are missing My point...Bruce Wayne only wears Glasses in BAD Batman Movies.