Batman R.i.p. Part 3

[Steeler80]

I've reached the realization that I'm just far too dense to get Morrison's stuff. I'll read an issue of his and go "What did I just read..." This might read much better in trade but this just doesn't seem cohesive to me. He's a very respected writer so maybe I just don't "get it".

Looking forward to Gaiman's run though.

[thunderbolt]

^^^ I'm "waiting on the trade" for this, too. There is also a trade coming of all the stories Morrison is referencing in RIP.

[The Toyroom]

There is also a trade coming of all the stories Morrison is referencing in RIP.

That sounds like it's more for me than the direction Morrison seems to be taking...

[Riffster]

read the brave and Bold with nightwing and hawkman- Nightwing gets some props

[Earth 2 Chris]

Does anyone remember when this was done after Knighfall/Quest? Bruce took a sabatical right after Zero Hour and gave the cowl to Dick. The overall storyline was called Prodigal and it ran through the Bat-books. It was well done, and proved Dick could be Batman. But I agree with Anthony, it's not something that you just pass along.

And beyond that, it's a pointless exercise that was done before, and in recent times! We all know Bruce will return, so why even go through the paces? Where's some good PLOTS to put the characters through. Changing just to change is so damn old.

Chris

[spiderrogue]

^^that's about when i quit reading batman....the KF/Q stuff kinda turned me off..and i agree about the spidey clone stuff too....ugh....what a mess....

[twilitezoner]

Does anyone remember when this was done after Knighfall/Quest? Bruce took a sabatical right after Zero Hour and gave the cowl to Dick. The overall storyline was called Prodigal and it ran through the Bat-books. It was well done, and proved Dick could be Batman. But I agree with Anthony, it's not something that you just pass along.

And beyond that, it's a pointless exercise that was done before, and in recent times! We all know Bruce will return, so why even go through the paces? Where's some good PLOTS to put the characters through. Changing just to change is so damn old.

Chris

Agreed. I think it was Morrison or someone at DC who likened Batman's Cowl to Green Lantern's ring. If that is the direction they pursue, I believe it will be short lived because people will drop the books in a heartbeat. Hopefully this isn't the DC version of Brand New Day.

[Earth 2 Chris]

In any"what if/Elseworlds/Imaginary story" scenario, where Bruce dies, retires, whatever...Dick should get the mantle of Batman.No one else should even be considered (esp. Jason Todd or even worse, Morrison's unlikeable Damian character). But for a sustained, ongoing storyline, there is no substitute. Batman isn't the Phantom. And his cowl isn't GL's ring.

Chris

[The Toyroom]

And beyond that, it's a pointless exercise that was done before, and in recent times! We all know Bruce will return, so why even go through the paces? Where's some good PLOTS to put the characters through. Changing just to change is so damn old.

Because they (DC and Marvel) always feel the need to top themselves and take it to the next level. To my recollection, the first continuing plotlines on a regular basis for Batman were done by Steve Englehart in "Detective" (the whole Rupert Thorne/Hugo Strange/Silver St. Cloud arc) and then later by Len Wein in "Batman" (introducing Lucius Fox,adding Selina Kyle as a love interest).

But before that, more often than not, they were good SOLID stand-alone stories. Everything doesn't have to inter-connect and escalate with each and every issue. Maybe that's why it's so hard to get new readers...you have to have a master's degree in comic book continuity to navigate some of the storylines...which is cool for the "fanboy" but sucks for the new or casual reader. Heroes like Batman should always be accessible...i.e. he's BRUCE WAYNE, he drives the Batmobile, fights the Joker, etc. etc. The character doesn't need to evolve SO much that the only other option left is to kill him off to revive interest, only to see him return at a later date...confusing readers even more.

[ctc]

>you have to have a master's degree in comic book continuity to navigate some of the storylines..

....uh.... Isn't Jason Todd dead....?

>which is cool for the "fanboy" but sucks for the new or casual reader.

My friend Jeff's characters are about to celebrate their 25th anniversary; nd we've been having a related discussion over his characters:

Pseudo Comments - SnowBuni webcomic project

The relevant bits start with the last post on this page.

Don C.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Amen Anthony. The animated series did this well. Sure they were plot elements from previous episodes picked up on later ones, but it wasn't a "serial" that you had to watch in sequence or you'd be lost.

After Final Crisis, DC should put a ban on all crosovers and ongoing arcs for a year and just see how things go. It would be interesting to be able to pick up a single issue of a mainstream, in-continuity comic again and get a complete story.

Chris

[The Toyroom]

After Final Crisis, DC should put a ban on all crosovers and ongoing arcs for a year and just see how things go. It would be interesting to be able to pick up a single issue of a mainstream, in-continuity comic again and get a complete story.

Aren't there any good interesting detective stories for Batman that would be maybe 2 issues at the most? After all, he IS the Darknight Detective...but sometimes I think DC forgets that and constantly throws him into the super-hero role. I recall some good O'Neil/Adams stories that had no "super-villains" that relied purely on the good deductive abilities of the Caped Crusader. Maybe DC needs to get back to that with the character and return him to his roots instead of instilling all of these soap-opera elements into "Batman" (like his love child Damian...bleech!)

[The Toyroom]

>you have to have a master's degree in comic book continuity to navigate some of the storylines..

....uh.... Isn't Jason Todd dead..

No...he got better...long story short- he was "revived" courtesy of Superboy-Prime's power punches to the walls of the multi-verse....or something stupid like that. Biggest cop-out ever as far as reviving a character from the dead IMO (thank you Judd Winnick ). Stuff like that should NEVER cross-over into the "supposedly" more grounded-in-reality world of Batman.

[Earth 2 Chris]

No...he got better...long story short- he was "revived" courtesy of Superboy-Prime's power punches to the walls of the multi-verse....or something stupid like that. Biggest cop-out ever as far as reviving a character from the dead IMO (thank you Judd Winnick ). Stuff like that should NEVER cross-over into the "supposedly" more grounded-in-reality world of Batman.

The best part of that is, Winncik brought him back with NO EXPLANATION AT ALL IN MIND. In several interviews he sidestepped the why and even admitted he hadn't worked it out yet. When Geoff Johns and Marv Wolfman worked out the Superboy-Prime punch, I guess Winnick found his way out.

Worst and most useless resurection in comics EVER.

Chris

[ctc]

>Biggest cop-out ever as far as reviving a character from the dead IMO
>Worst and most useless resurection in comics EVER.

But.... didn't Marvel bring Bucky back by saying, y'know... he just WASN'T dead? (OR sixty years older....)

Don C.