SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING Final Trailer and Posters

[rykerw1701]

Thoroughly enjoyable movie for my 10 year old son, 13 year old daughter, my fiance and myself. Hard to make one we all like.

I thought the changes to include a broader racial makeup were fine. As has been stated, it was probably more of a marketing decision than one of political correctness, but old comic properties like Spider-man were very white, and that shouldn't mean they have to only stay that way now. NYC is a very diverse place. I'm ok with re imaging some roles, like MJ in this interpretation or Nick Fury. Some here will disagree, but to me Nick Fury was just another white guy before Samuel L Jackson brought some pizzazz to the role.

I didn't care for him having the sidekick at the computer, whatever race the kid was. Just seemed odd Peter had that partner whispering in his head.

Keaton was great. He still has his same quirkiness, but it was downplayed and replaced with the appropriate badguy-ness.

[hedrap]

These casting changes are driven more by demographics and marketing than by political correctness or any desire for non-traditional casting opportunities. Movie casting is just not analogous to theatre casting.

It's more hand-in-hand. MRVL is forwardly progressive, so the changes fit the demos and marketing they want the company to be associated with, because the overwhelming majority of decision makers share the same beliefs.

For example, the backstory on the current retro-relaunch.

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/marvel-exec-blames-diversity-women-comic-sales-slump-1202021440/

“We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against,” Gabriel added. “That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked.”

After, he spent a few weeks apologizing for something that's been proven true by different companies in other fields: Diversity appeals to a niche audience. MCU can target diversity as the movies are riding a huge populous wave, but Marvel Comics can't get away with it as comics are already a specialized niche. In essence, they were catering to a niche within a niche.

I should add that if WB-DC pushed a traditional approach and sold it as time-honored and classical, it too would be a niche play.

[PNGwynne]

Part of the concern is that there wasn't much diversity in vintage comics, at least not non-stereotyped characters. But I mostly agree with you on this, I'm at root a traditionalist. There can be creative laziness on both sides if the aisle.

It seems that Homecoming has done somewhat as you wished, Lonnie. At any rate, let's not delude ourselves: These casting changes are driven more by demographics and marketing than by political correctness or any desire for non-traditional casting opportunities. Movie casting is just not analogous to theatre casting.

Is this trend a bad thing in and of itself? I don't really think so, the film is not set in 1962. Spidey is still Spidey. And it was done in more recent comics too--alternate Kid Flash, Aqualad, Glory Grant, Capt. Marvel/Photon, Giant-Man. It's not as cut and dried as may appear.

[LonnieFisher]

I'd be for the "diversity", if it was how the story was originally written. But it wasn't. They shouldn't change the race of anybody. They should write a new story with new characters, not change existing ones. Total lack of creativity.

[The Bat]

Did they go too Liberal friendly with the Brown Flash, the fat Asian sidekick, the mulatto love interest and Hispanic MJ? BTW, kudos on portraying MJ as the typical millennial

Read my earlier post...Peter's love interest was NOT MJ!!

[thunderbolt]

^Diversity is a liberal thing?

I'm sure you didn't intend it, but your post borders on offensive.

he said liberal friendly, surely there are conservatives that are ok with diversity. I find his point of diversity being "friendly" to a political persuasion a little narrowminded.

[hedrap]

Complicated issue. The racial makeup is an accurate reflection of NYC, as our members here can attest. It's Parker who's the anomoly. I never met a white kid from any borough who didn't have a shade of some accent. It's like Peter commutes from Westchester.

What I see as PC is how integrated this diverse of a crowd is. It's a very Millenial dogma, but they still push it way too far for high schoolers. College would be more credible.

The Keaton family magic is a holdover from flippin Raimi's Spidey 4, when it was Malkovich and Hathaway. Studios demand idea incorporation so they can write off development costs. Horrible practice and way too common.

[huedell]

In general, tolerance and respect involve empathy and often some sort of suppression of bias. That suppression could be considered "walking on eggshells" as you put it.

This "tolerance, respect and empathy" you speak of comes in all packages... all degrees... or what-have-you. A lot of people can't accept that. And there lies the problem... the divide.

Yeah, to rephrase or re-color what I said in my previous post, I could feasibly say that I walk on more "eggshells" than "egg debris" around here... but, if that IS what I'm doing, it's by my choice, not because it's what someone tells me do.

I could be more insensitive (on that odd sliding scale of whatever "sensitivity" means to whoever wants to be sensitive, and to what degree they want to be that)... but, I happen to like it here.

I don't see your logic in condoning one member's expression of offence, but dismissing another's.

Agreed.

That's the point being made by what I (and the other poster were) was saying...ultimately.

If you're going to get offended... then, hey, how about "I" get offended too.

See where this slippery slope leads us? I assume you get what I'm saying.

Amen

[PNGwynne]

And my civil opinion is that ^^^^is the appropriate response.

It's one thing to be respectful. It's another to have to walk on eggshells.

I do my best to be respectful around here, but I will walk on nothing less than egg debris. Not an easy challenge sometimes... but ultimately worth it.... I'd hope all else feel the same.

But understand if they don't.

In general, tolerance and respect involve empathy and often some sort of suppression of bias. That suppression could be considered "walking on eggshells" as you put it.

I don't see your logic in condoning one member's expression of offence, but dismissing another's.

[PNGwynne]

To answer Mr. Marion's question about diversity (admittedly having not seen Homecoming): No, I don't think they went "too far."

My friend from college lives in New York and teaches mathematics in an inner-city school. I'm sure he could describe the diversity of his students better than I could guess.

But I can say that I live in a small, conservative Ohio village of about 2,000 people. We have a consolidated high school, including many farm kids, of about 450 students. In that student body are white, black, mixed race, and Indian young people. Likely some gay ones, too.

Also, biracial relationships are not uncommon in my county; in fact, my next-door neighbors are one such couple.

So, I don't think depicting a much more populous and likely less conservative school as diverse is inappropriate.

[huedell]

I find this post offensive...

And my civil opinion is that ^^^^is the appropriate response.

It's one thing to be respectful. It's another to have to walk on eggshells.

I do my best to be respectful around here, but I will walk on nothing less than egg debris. Not an easy challenge sometimes... but ultimately worth it.... I'd hope all else feel the same.

But understand if they don't.

[LonnieFisher]

^Diversity is a liberal thing?

I'm sure you didn't intend it, but your post borders on offensive.

I find this post offensive...

[PNGwynne]

I find nothing that comes close to offensive in Mr. Marion's legit questions about the altering or "ethnically diversifying" and "politically correcting" characters that have been around, as basic Caucasian, for 40 some-odd years. It's a fair question and one that deserves an open, frank and non-judgmental conversation.

BS. C'mon--that's a politicized post as soon as it's characterized as a (capitalized) "Liberal thing." No mention was made of diversity for marketing or non-traditional casting. "PC" is used here as an epithet by far too many people who can't define it. Just my (semi-civil) opinion.

[huedell]

Craziest movie ever for me.

As far as "extremes".

I don't think I ever left a Marvel/DC ever thinking it was as good as this movie.

So, what I'm saying is, it's probably the best superhero movie ever AFAIC.... at least, as far as pure joy.

That said, I don't think I ever nit-picked a DC/Marvel movie more than this one.

Many of my nit-picks came after the fact, when taking into consideration a lot of "nerd" opinion, and how much I think the nerd consensus' often contradict themselves, not realizing the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

***SPOILER ALERT***SPOILER ALERT***SPOILER ALERT***

In an earlier comment someone mentioned about how much the mask is on in the movie while he wears the costume... well, not any more than in a regular Spidey movie... not that I really care.... Holland's quips broke through the mask well. And the Washington Monument sequence was on par or BETTER than the Doc Ock subway stuff. I also have to give kudos to the ferry scene...so very visceral. I'm finding it odd that many are ignoring the visual prowess in this supposedly "small" movie, when I think it's the best superhero movie EVER as far as cinematography.

I mean, I do not want to hear ANY thing about how cool this movie is if you didn't like the organic web-shooters in the Tobey movies and thought that notably soured those movies overall, yet you were cool with the virtual absence of freakin' "spidey-sense" in this movie. SPIDEY-SENSE. Notably, jarringly absent.

And just because the "Iron-Spider" suit showed up at end of the film... doesn't erase that he was Iron-Spider anyway throughout most of the film.

And the "Keaton family reveal"? Awesomely shocking. But SO coincidental...what were the odds? There was no connection there. Yet, I loved it anyway. The suspense was great. At first, I thought he kidnapped their family. Great reference to my favorite sequence from Tobey's films (the Thanksgiving dinner sequence).

I'm fine with ALL this... just like I'm fine with Superman II despite all the hypocrisy in Superman II reviews. I guess it's just difficult no matter how much you like it hearing rave reviews about a movie that you know, if it wasn't so good AS A WHOLE, that all the nerd nitpicks would be getting total front seat.

Again though... awesome freakin' entry into DC/Marvel movie history... if not THE BEST.

[emeraldknight47]

^Diversity is a liberal thing?

I'm sure you didn't intend it, but your post borders on offensive.

I find nothing that comes close to offensive in Mr. Marion's legit questions about the altering or "ethnically diversifying" and "politically correcting" characters that have been around, as basic Caucasian, for 40 some-odd years. It's a fair question and one that deserves an open, frank and non-judgmental conversation, IMHO.

And I've heard that Parker apparently does NOT possess spider-sense in this incarnation? Who thought that was a good idea? His spider-sense is like a cat's whiskers; it keeps him safe and allows him to avoid danger. If the Stark tech suit has assumed this function for the character, then it's a fundamental (and pretty stupid) alteration to the core of the character...