Marvel and DC... "Classics Line" ?

[Earth 2 Chris]

It's really amazing that DC and Marvel don't do this, considering they have series running that aren't in their current continuity. DC has the Batman '66 title (now mini-series, but still going) and Bombshells for instance. What's one more out-of-contiuity title? Just do a Batman, Superman and Justice League to start, and see how it goes.

Chris

[Blue Meanie]

In general, I'll bet these guys make way more money doing conventions and commissions than they would doing a monthly title.

I don't know about that. Figure travel, hotel expense, food and cost of table(s) It might be a little more than even money in some cases, not all. Again, tables or booths at the big cons like San Diego and New York are in the $2000 range. Walt could probably do well because he is a quick artist that always gets GREAT end results....some others, not so much. Also figure this...sometimes you DON'T want to be on the road. It's gotta be killer if you are on the road for half the year.

[WannabeMego]

what did folks think of the Retroactive event? Where they did bring back a number of classic creators? Should they have continued this as a regular line (if it had sold?)

$ 4.99?!?!?!

That ***** better have NO AD's and be at least 50+ pages long for that price!!!

If you are going to use the word 'Retro', then the price needs to reflect that as well...$2.99 is bearable...$1.99 SOLD!!!

...and don't tell me it can't be done for that cheap...this is not coming from a small independent publisher...these folks are printing HUGE Volumes of various titles, if they can't negotiate a deal using cheaper stock (cover & internals) like the old books, then it's poor damn contracting on their part...why should I or you pay for their stupidity and/or poor planning.

...and DON'T even THINK of telling me to buy Digital cause that ***** should be no more then $ .99!!!

As a matter of fact...the $2.99 Price point should come with a FREE Digital Version!!!

[Blue Meanie]

Again, I point out that DC has been doing "Key Book" or "Essential Book" reprints at $1 each. Same goes for Marvel and the same goes for Image that started the trend of essential/key books reprints. If they can do those for $1 they could sure as hell make a "Classic" line in the same vein.

Here's something else to chew on about how doable this idea is : How many variant covers does Marvel and DC do a month? You tell me if they stop the insanity with variant covers they couldn't take that money and do a year test run on a "Classics" line??!!?? The only people that are really raking in boat loads of money on the variants are not the publishers but the secondary market. Marvel and DC still ONLY get paid the price on the book which is the same price as the regular cover. Again, what these companies are doing is a "Quick" fix with whatever they are publishing. What I find laughable is that all the newer collectors/store owners/people in the industry brag about how June was the "Biggest sales month EVER in the history of the industry." REALLY??!!?? How did they come up with that??!!?? Is it based on monetary sales or is it based on print run? I'm betting it's based on monetary sales...in fact I'd bet the farm on that one. Print Runs are DOWN from the last 20 years or so. It's a fact. I think the companies keep the print runs down on purpose so the Collectors/Speculators buy that second print because it has a different cover. This whole concept of having a "Classics" line is very doable if Marvel and DC want to still be actual PUBLISHERS of comic books...but it seems all they care about are licensing agreements and movie and TV deals. If that is truly what they want then they should stop all the shenanigans of destroying these characters that we've loved for so many years.

[Starroid Raiders Dagon]

A great example of a Classic style Comic that DID work was John Byrne's X-Men:The Hidden Years...LOVED it! The book was very successful but Marvel cancelled it anyway? Byrne got so mad he spoke out about it and left Marvel. Marvel blew it IMO.

I could not agree more. I bought all the back issues when I started reading midway through his series. Was a strange decision to cancel since it apparently sold well(?).

[WannabeMego]

A great example of a Classic style Comic that DID work was John Byrne's X-Men:The Hidden Years...LOVED it! The book was very successful but Marvel cancelled it anyway? Byrne got so mad he spoke out about it and left Marvel. Marvel blew it IMO.

Agree 100%...Great Read, Great Artist, Great Book!!!

...and...I do recall that several (not a few) LCS Owners around me saying how sales of this book/line were up more then some of the established books at the time...so why was it cancelled.

[CrimsonGhost]

I don't know about that. Figure travel, hotel expense, food and cost of table(s) It might be a little more than even money in some cases, not all. Again, tables or booths at the big cons like San Diego and New York are in the $2000 range. Walt could probably do well because he is a quick artist that always gets GREAT end results....some others, not so much. Also figure this...sometimes you DON'T want to be on the road. It's gotta be killer if you are on the road for half the year.

But if these are the big names that were listed above, I'll bet a lot of those names could get all expenses paid and could do pretty good at cons selling prints, books, sketches, and commissions. I know Dan Parent, for example, does extremely well at conventions doing this, probably better than what he makes on the books he works on.

Maybe I'm wrong.

But how much would their penciling page rate be do you suppose? $200 a page? $500? $1000?

I'm going to guess less than $500. They would make roughly $11,000 a month on a 22 page book plus cover and promos if that's the case. I'm not sure they couldn't make that doing 2 cons a month.

Sure, travel has costs and wear and tear, but sitting at a drawing board for hours on end is also killer, especially if you haven't been doing it for a while.

[Blue Meanie]

But if these are the big names that were listed above, I'll bet a lot of those names could get all expenses paid and could do pretty good at cons selling prints, books, sketches, and commissions. I know Dan Parent, for example, does extremely well at conventions doing this, probably better than what he makes on the books he works on.

Maybe I'm wrong.

But how much would their penciling page rate be do you suppose? $200 a page? $500? $1000?

I'm going to guess less than $500. They would make roughly $11,000 a month on a 22 page book plus cover and promos if that's the case. I'm not sure they couldn't make that doing 2 cons a month.

Sure, travel has costs and wear and tear, but sitting at a drawing board for hours on end is also killer, especially if you haven't been doing it for a while.

I know up until the last 2 or 3 years that George Perez was charging $25 sketch at cons. George would have had to have done close to 100 sketches at one of the Coast shows JUST to break even for table. George isn't Walt when it comes to doing sketches. Nor should anyone try to be if they take more time. Then figure out hotel expense and flight from Florida where George lives. He'd have to do more than 200 sketches at a show just to break even. I don't think they make $5K a show if what you propose is true. I don't know...I'd take the 11K a month over having to do all of that flying and HOPE that you can do enough to make 7 - 10 K per show if you figure out all of the expense. I've heard so many stories about what has happened with the convention scene. The Cons today would rather foot the bill for a big time movie star or TV star before they do ANYTHING for a comic book person. Again, just stories I've heard from some that have been involved in Comic Cons. It's not like it used to be back in the 70's and 80's. It's literally a whole new ballgame.

[CrimsonGhost]

Why is Perez only charging $25 a sketch? A $25 sketch should just be a head in profile and he should finish it in minutes.

If he's spending more than half an hour on it, he's doing himself a giant disservice. He should be easily able to do 10-15 $25 sketches in an hour.

Have you ever seen what Katie Cook does? She does these beautiful little teeny tiny watercolor sketch cards and they're like 2 for $5 of pretty much anything you want her to do. She does them right there as you're watching and they probably take maybe 3-4 minutes for her to do both of them and she has a line all day doing these things.

I also love the way Mike Kaluta does business. If you want a sketch from him, he asks you how much you want to pay. If you say $25, you get a nice little $25 sketch. If you say $200, you get a beautifully rendered sketch. Anyone can afford a sketch from Kaluta, and I guess you get what you pay for, but it's fair for him and his time, work, etc.

There is simply no reason Perez should only break even at a major con.

[Blue Meanie]

^^
He actually charges $40 now. Trust me...even $40 is too cheap for Perez' sketch.

[CrimsonGhost]

^^
He actually charges $40 now. Trust me...even $40 is too cheap for Perez' sketch.

I'm sure. I loved Perez on Teen Titans and Crisis when I was a kid. It would be great to see him on a 80's storyline book like Titans with Wolfman again.

[samurainoir]

Again, I point out that DC has been doing "Key Book" or "Essential Book" reprints at $1 each. Same goes for Marvel and the same goes for Image that started the trend of essential/key books reprints. If they can do those for $1 they could sure as hell make a "Classic" line in the same vein.

My understanding about these, similar to the Free Comic Book Day comics, is that they serve as loss leaders to promote the trade collections. They are generally just the first issues of a comic series with a deep library of collected trades. They are hoping that $1 issue of Walking Dead #1 or Saga #1 or Sandman #1 or Fables #1 let's a potential reader samples that comic and enjoys it enough to invest the $10-$15 bucks for the first trade, and in turn the rest of the multi volume series. My understanding is that this strategy has been fairly successful, along with releasing the first issue free online as a digital download.

If it were a viable publishing model, they would reprint every issue at a $1 a piece instead of just the first one.

[samurainoir]

Agree 100%...Great Read, Great Artist, Great Book!!!

...and...I do recall that several (not a few) LCS Owners around me saying how sales of this book/line were up more then some of the established books at the time...so why was it cancelled.

IIRC, new editorial regime wanted to make their mark with some incredibly sweeping line-wide changes, and if it was part of the old editorial regime, it was out unless retooled. There wasn't any title that didn't eventually receive some kind of make-over or relaunch, even if the creative team stayed put (as witnessed by Peter David's Captain Marvel and Christopher Priest's Black Panther).

They wanted Byrne and Claremont to reunite on X-Men The End instead. Byrne walked, they gave Claremont Extreme X-Men #1 and also allowed him to do X-Men The End as well.

[WannabeMego]

IIRC, new editorial regime wanted to make their mark with some incredibly sweeping line-wide changes, and if it was part of the old editorial regime, it was out unless retooled. There wasn't any title that didn't eventually receive some kind of make-over or relaunch, even if the creative team stayed put (as witnessed by Peter David's Captain Marvel and Christopher Priest's Black Panther).

They wanted Byrne and Claremont to reunite on X-Men The End instead. Byrne walked, they gave Claremont Extreme X-Men #1 and also allowed him to do X-Men The End as well.

...and that says it all right there...

It's not about the consumer, and, it's not about business...it's about EGO!!!

"I know what you like, and you're gonna eat it!!!"

[samurainoir]

...and that says it all right there...

It's not about the consumer, and, it's not about business...it's about EGO!!!

"I know what you like, and you're gonna eat it!!!"

to be fair though, we're talking about 16 years ago under a previous regime when Marvel was in bankruptcy with no studio movie machine at the helm (and their Toy Company masters in a bad spot as well), rather than today under the Disney regime with revenues in the billions. I'd say the model back then at the turn of the century is diametrically opposite with a ridiculous amount of creative risk taking rather than how relatively "safe" they play it today with their constant Event repetition, rebooting and multiple darwinian character iterations.

Out of desperation to turn a ship that had already sunk and heading to the bottom of the ocean, Jemas/Quesada made some pretty bold creative choices by plucking indy talent like Brian Bendis and David Mack, and raiding the Vertigo talent like Grant Morrison and Mark Millar, and editorial (current Marvel EIC was poached from there) as a hail mary pass (which worked against odds). Putting unproven TV and movie creatives like Joss Whedon on X-Men, JMS on Spider-Man or Kevin Smith on Daredevil. Warren veteran Bruce Jones getting a run on The Hulk. The work of many of these creators driving the content that they adapt into film and TV today.

I personally would have loved to see X-Men Hidden Years continue. Haven't really been interested in much of Byrne's output since.