how comics have changed

[Mr.Marion]

Buy what makes you happy. Even if your thing is back issues they have tpbs on many different runs, Like the Avengers-Defenders war benefitted greatly from being being in book form and picked up a Deathlok complete collection for $3 at a local toyshow. New comics aren't my thing but every time I talk to modern comic readers they bring up how good Mark Waid is and the grip he has on the characters.

[thunderbolt]

my highpoint would have been the same time, Brian. Byrne's FF and then into Crisis, Dark Knight Returns and Byrne's Superman. I fell off the XMen around the time Jim Lee showed up and started pushing Claremont out of the drivers seat. Then is was Hellboy, Sin City and not much else.

[MIB41]

That's interesting Tom, I think the mid 1980s was my high point, i truly cared about those story lines. it probably helped that i was 15 at the time, by the time i was 20, i started to really drop off.

I think it's like most people say. It's when you come in and where you are at in life. Take Spider-man as an example for me. I started reading him around 1968. I went through kinder-garden, elementary school, middle school, high school, and into college with the same hero, same costume, same Peter Parker. The best part? All layers of new stories building upon those that came before. So there was a real history I connected with. It wasn't just time spent. It was story building too. So I think when they started changing the brand with the costume and then eventually revoked his past in the clone story that said none of it was him from 1976 to present, I just scoffed at the notion. That would be like my brother coming up to me and saying, "I'm not really your brother. The milkman brought me here. I have to leave now." So there was a kind of disconnect to that past I grew up with. So, I guess it's all in how you connected to these heroes. I was pretty well invested. Plus I bought into this notion that continuity was always job one in the writing. I think it might be a more fair assessment to say my Spider-man was written out. To go much further was to disconnect him with the younger generation coming in, so something had to give.

[palitoy]

That's interesting Tom, I think the mid 1980s was my high point, i truly cared about those story lines. it probably helped that i was 15 at the time, by the time i was 20, i started to really drop off.

[MIB41]

Interesting, I was sincerely curious. While everyone's reasons are personal, my own interest in comic books really waned in my mid 30s. I couldn't quite put my finger on it either.

While some of it could be blamed on things like me finding many tonal changes were crass exploitation as opposed to artistic choice, fatigue to "events" etc, I do somehow wonder if it isn't tied into music, fashion, comedy etc that you just sort of "drop off" at a certain age and go back to what brought you there in the first place....

By the mid-80's I was burned out as a comic reader. So much was changing, it no longer provided that comfort zone I enjoyed as a kid. The FF was changing membership; Iron Man was no longer Tony Stark because he was a drunk; The Hulk had burned off his original dose of radiation (actually in '78) and was now too self-aware when he was restored. Parker gets married and then the clone story comes crashing down on his existence. It just felt like the comics, which I used to escape from the real problems of the world, were having more problems themselves. I enjoyed the fantasy realm and it's own set of issues that were more secret identity driven rather than tackling social issues on a grand scale. But the two biggest reactions I ever took note of by the comic reading community during my youth was the killing of Gwen Stacy and Spider-man putting on his black uniform. Both about ten years apart from one another. On the DC side I think the Flash being "killed" in Crisis moved allot of people as did Jason ,as Robin, being murdered by the Joker (although I came back to comics briefly to read on that).

But I understand times change and the readership changes. I was fortunate to have sat in a nice pocket of story telling for the better part of my youth and times were changing and comics had to move with it. I think it's inevitable. The things that pull you into a medium like comics eventually evolve to motivate a new audience. I think it's one of many moments you get smacked of in life when things you enjoy no longer consider you to be the primary voice in that realm. Times have moved on and you were the last to know about it. But for me, comic reading in the early days was like visiting an old friend. They grew up with you. Today's heroes don't do that. And allot of that is likely because of the attention span of most kids. Comics have so much to compete against these days, they have to constantly reinvent themselves to keep an audience. So I realize the pressures and expectation are entirely different.

[palitoy]

i think you might be on to something there .when there was that massive explosion of creativity in the 60s with music,fashion,art,furniture design,tv and films comics was probably part of that.maybe today the younger generation are just not as creative that's why tv is full of reality shows and there are so many remakes of films.it would explain too why there doesn't seem to be the youth cults like in the 60's/70's where you had teds,mods,hippies,skinheads,punks etc all with their own style and music .

No, that wasn't my point at all. In fact, I abhor the crutch of "things were better in my day" and was suggesting that comics are more involved in your own personal youth than anything else. It's not like they're bringing in lots of people in their 40s and 50s.

All my time as a collector i had 50s-60s kids tell me the comics/records/cartoons/toys i enjoy paled in comparison to theirs, which I've always felt was kind of idiot's argument to be honest.

I thought the Nu 52 was trash but i spoke to several successful comics retailers about it and they loved it, one even said to me "it's bringing the 20 somethings in, I need them". To each their own.

Most of us read comics in the 70s and some still continue. To expect them to be exactly the same as they were 40 years ago is a bit absurd. Even if the changes aren't good, there has to be some sort of growth or they get stagnant.

I imagine that the drop off is severe when a comic gets stagnant these days. Like you said, some of the changes I don't like but others? I think they're great and bring the character more into today. Aesthetic changes have been happening since day 1 and if they hinder your enjoyment of movies or television spin offs, well that's pitiable.

[daz71]

Interesting, I was sincerely curious. While everyone's reasons are personal, my own interest in comic books really waned in my mid 30s. I couldn't quite put my finger on it either.

While some of it could be blamed on things like me finding many tonal changes were crass exploitation as opposed to artistic choice, fatigue to "events" etc, I do somehow wonder if it isn't tied into music, fashion, comedy etc that you just sort of "drop off" at a certain age and go back to what brought you there in the first place....

i think you might be on to something there .when there was that massive explosion of creativity in the 60s with music,fashion,art,furniture design,tv and films comics was probably part of that.maybe today the younger generation are just not as creative that's why tv is full of reality shows and there are so many remakes of films.it would explain too why there doesn't seem to be the youth cults like in the 60's/70's where you had teds,mods,hippies,skinheads,punks etc all with their own style and music .

[thunderbolt]

Most of us read comics in the 70s and some still continue. To expect them to be exactly the same as they were 40 years ago is a bit absurd. Even if the changes aren't good, there has to be some sort of growth or they get stagnant.

[daz71]

I seem to remember them being changed as they were out of publication for some time like Thunderbolt said. But, those are brand new characters with the same superpower as the originals. I hated seeing guys like Luke Cage in the Avengers with t-shirt and jeans instead of a costume. Trying to think of some others that have changed to regular clothes but only Cage seems to pop to my mind, right now.

i think the costumes are probably what attracted us all to them in the first place there is a character called gauntlet in the book who's a dead ringer for the vest and jeans luke cage.

[Starroid Raiders Dagon]

there was a long period where characters like the Flash and GL were out of publication, so maybe the fan base moved on.

I seem to remember them being changed as they were out of publication for some time like Thunderbolt said. But, those are brand new characters with the same superpower as the originals. I hated seeing guys like Luke Cage in the Avengers with t-shirt and jeans instead of a costume. Trying to think of some others that have changed to regular clothes but only Cage seems to pop to my mind, right now.

[daz71]

Oh absolutely. It's all when you grew up. This forum just happens to have a demographic of forty-somethings who wish comics were like they were when Megos could be found in stores. I prefer to celebrate the old rather than moan about the new, although I'm as guilty as anyone for criticizing modern trends and being an old man. I think there's a certain acceptance that you have to have that things will never quite be what they were, and that's okay. I only have so much time and money for funnybooks anyway. That's why I gravitate towards Marvel Masterworks and the like.

funny thing is i've asked quite a few people of all ages what they liked and disliked in the book and not one person picked one of the modern pictures as one they liked when i asked why the younger ones said the older pictures looked like super heroes and the modern ones looked like emo or goth books.i've no idea what an emo book looks like though.

[palitoy]

Interesting, I was sincerely curious. While everyone's reasons are personal, my own interest in comic books really waned in my mid 30s. I couldn't quite put my finger on it either.

While some of it could be blamed on things like me finding many tonal changes were crass exploitation as opposed to artistic choice, fatigue to "events" etc, I do somehow wonder if it isn't tied into music, fashion, comedy etc that you just sort of "drop off" at a certain age and go back to what brought you there in the first place....

[Hedji]

I wonder if in the 60s, there were Golden Age fans ragging on the Silver Age incarnations. Comments like "That's not the Flash, Jay Garrick is the one true flash!" must have happened right?

Oh absolutely. It's all when you grew up. This forum just happens to have a demographic of forty-somethings who wish comics were like they were when Megos could be found in stores. I prefer to celebrate the old rather than moan about the new, although I'm as guilty as anyone for criticizing modern trends and being an old man. I think there's a certain acceptance that you have to have that things will never quite be what they were, and that's okay. I only have so much time and money for funnybooks anyway. That's why I gravitate towards Marvel Masterworks and the like.

[daz71]

I wonder if in the 60s, there were Golden Age fans ragging on the Silver Age incarnations. Comments like "That's not the Flash, Jay Garrick is the one true flash!" must have happened right?

probably i think it's usually a case of what you see first ,like the fisrt dr.who,the first bond and the first sherlock holmes tends to be your favourite although it's not always the case.

[VintageMike]

I wonder if in the 60s, there were Golden Age fans ragging on the Silver Age incarnations. Comments like "That's not the Flash, Jay Garrick is the one true flash!" must have happened right?

No doubt. My I have very few 60's DC comics to verify, I have enough 70's Marvel to see that exact thing in the letters pages. Lot of people writing in to the FF comic in the 70's pining for 60's FF.