Marvel: Bruce Banner no longer the Hulk...

[MIB41]

The next hero from my generation to take a "diversification" tour...

http://hsrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=A2KLthS_AVtWyzcAJEibvZx4;_ylu=X3oDMTNzdHVyNzBxBGJwb3MDMQRjY29kZQNnYQRjcG9zAzgEY3QDMQRnA2I2Y2M0YjY5LWFjZGMtMzczZi1hM2E0LWEzMDM0MWM4NTA3MQRpbnRsA3VzBGl0YwMwBHBrZ3QDNARwb3MDMQRzZWMDdGQtc3RybQRzbGsDdGl0bGUEdGVzdAM5MDE-/RV=1/RE=1450014400/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RO=2/RU=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jaW5lbWFibGVuZC5jb20vcG9wL0JydWNlLUJhbm5lci1Mb25nZXItSHVsay1TZWUtSGlzLVJlcGxhY2VtZW50LTEwMjA5Ny5odG1s/RS=%5EADA.tay97V_b7v9pXp0dLjQeIwrIYE-

[Bruce Banner]

Madness. Steve Rogers no longer Cap (again), Logan no longer Wolverine, Thor no longer Thor, and Banner no longer Hulk.
Marvel's "new initiative" has a lot to answer for.

[phil]

When I see headlines like this it makes me glad I don't read comic books anymore.

[WannabeMego]

Tom...No Longer a Reader/Buyer

[emeraldknight47]

Yet another reason for me to continue to distance myself from comics. It's kind of ironic, actually: a lot of us here were buying comics and into the comics scene when comics weren't "cool" and you were generally perceived as a freak, weirdo or idiot because you read comic books; now comics have become mainstream in society, gathering ardent followers on television, in movies and online by mining a lot of the material that we were ridiculed for reading. The even bigger irony? Those of us who WERE comics fans during those years are now turning away from the very books and characters we used to enjoy simply because the companies behind them are completely altering the characters we used to love.

On the DC side, it started with "The New 52," and characters becoming too hip to "wear their underwear outside of their pants" and everyone deciding that Nehru collars and piping were the new "in" items for costumes. On the MARVEL front, I'm not sure when the turn away from what we all knew and loved began, but it has only accelerated with the encroaching "Disneyfication" of the Marvel Universe (just take a gander at the costume alterations made to Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman, etc. to make them less "sexy" and more, I dunno, homogenized? Also makes it easier, down the road, to shoehorn one or all of Marvel's top female characters into the mold of the Disney Princesses).

Comics from both big publishers, as well as some of the independents, have realized that they are being seen in the stark light of day and now, instead of being proud of the characters as they were and their long and storied histories, the companies are scrambling to make them more PC and mass marketable to everyone (an economic choice, I'm sure), but in the process are alienating the very people, us, who have supported them with our money and our participation for the better part of the last 30 years...

[palitoy]

I feel like balloons should drop from the ceiling with a banner that says "One millionth comic book gimmicky stunt thread", this happens almost monthly these days.

[Iron Mego]

If they're trying to update the character why did they pick a 40+ year old tagline? Totally Awesome? Hello 1983!

[knight errant00]

. . . the companies are scrambling to make them more PC and mass marketable to everyone (an economic choice, I'm sure), but in the process are alienating the very people, us, who have supported them with our money and our participation for the better part of the last 30 years...

I think I've said before: I don't think the PC-ification is to broaden appeal (although it's what they say. it's not helping sales long-term as they burn bridges with loyal readers). Mostly, I think it's two things: One, it's for attention and publicity -- they know announcing Captain Marvel is a Muslin girl or Captain America is now Black or Bat-Woman's a Lesbian will get them articles and interviews online and in USA Today and in all manner of online news and blogs and maybe even an appearance on the Today show or a skit on SNL. Two, when you read interviews with the writers and editors about these decisions, you can tell they think making changes like these is important, and they'r playing to their own values and goals and those of their friends and colleagues who'll rave on about how brave and important this change is regardless of what it does to the character or sales and anyone who rejects it is a racist/sexist Neanderthal.

The irony to me is that they don't create new characters to do this -- if these are such great concepts from such great creators, they could create fresh characters who'd catch on the way Stan Lee and company made Marvel take off through the 1960s and beyond. Anyone who said a teenage superhero living with this struggling widowed aunt would be shocked at Spider-Man's place today. And I think it's that the creators and the companies know, in their hearts, whether they'll admit it even to themselves, these reinventions of the old characters lacks the real oomph it would take to have a new characters even stand in the shadow of the greats of the past -- if Miles Morales is such a great character, why isn't he Dragonfly or the Mantis and tearing things up to become one of Marvel's new great legends, instead of the replacement Spider-Man?

The good thing is, they can retcon the new continuity, but not the existing comics out there.

[daz71]

and they call it progress.

[JediJaida]

Well, it isn't! I'm SO glad that I don't read comics anymore.

Aside from the sheer expense in keeping up with the different titles, thy just don't have the same charm that they used to back when we were kids.

Logan is no longer Wolverine? Steve Rogers is no longer Captain America? Thor is no longer Thor? What in the frilly heck is going on?

I thought it was bad when they paired Superman up with Wonder Woman, but things are getting REALLY bad if it has come to this.

The only redeeming arc they had going was when Loki was turned into a child, and tried to redeem his past sins to start a new life. And it turns out that the whole thing was a set up for the child, A CHILD to die, so that his manipulative, evil older self can take over that life.

THAT is when I lost all respect for Marvel. The one thing that I admired about Loki was that he hardly ever involved children in his schemes. But then he went and involved his child-self and FREAKING KILLED HIM!

I think that I will simply stick with MCU, as messed up as it is.

[Starroid Raiders Dagon]

I have no anger left for Marvel. They had been pi$$ing me off for years. I called it quits on the comics so long ago. I've enjoyed most of the movies and I can live with that.
Nothing that I like from DC seems to last a year! I know they have a Metamorpho and Metal Men (and a pretty awesome looking Swamp Thing series with Len Wein) series coming out in 2016, and I have liked the two Metal Men attempts they have made in the past few years. They are just as guilty as Marvel (Creeper, Wally West, Blue Beetle to name a few off the top of my head).

[Nostalgiabuff]

none of this is creating diversity. it's a sad attempt at trying to force it down our throats. as others have said, and I myself in prior threads about this nonsense. if they want diversity, they should create new characters to stand along side the iconic lineup each company has in it's catalog. If they start putting this crap into the MCU, I will stop watching. I am tired of someone else trying to control what I do, or eat, or see

[emeraldknight47]

I have a feeling that sometime within the next five to ten years, comics characters that we grew up with will either become totally unrecognizable or everything the companies are trying to do to make the comics more diverse and PC will simply implode and a new wave of nostalgia will return the characters to what they were originally. What goes around comes around...

[hedrap]

What has me baffled by all of it is they're not following through on the intention.

NYCC '15 Marvel panel verified a lot of this is being done to pacify a very vocal crowd, but they're not buying it. literally buying it, in terms of sales and figuratively, in that they push back by saying it's just a trend and the Big Two will revert back to the old standards.

But Marvel is doing it more for the IP, for as the first Spidey reboot shows, you can't go back to the well as often as wanted. Combined with the soap opera style of comics, there are hundreds of stories to choose from, but 80% are derivatives of each other. So the new workaround was supposed to be Ultimates, a distilling of the best aspects. Then that spiraled out of control. Now it's Next Gen characters who can be anything but white males.

And while I'm one of the first to hammer that point, I don't have a problem with it...if it's actually done to further the character story. But it's not, and just look at Thor for proof. If Amadeus Cho is going to replace Banner, than kill Banner or have him truly lose the Hulk. But they don't commit to the change, because it's New Coke fears. So the original character experiences a detour, not a climatic moment. And the new character eventually becomes a knock-off, thereby diluting the value of the original and not producing better IP content for film/tv.

I think Civil War really exposes how flawed the cart-before-the-horse model is. CW was written not just to be an event, but a massive piece of new film content. And we're not talking about something written in the pre-MCU days. Ultimates was partly made as a storyboarded graphic novel to pique studio interests, but CW came after Marvel was a solid entity. The best that could be achieved is a Cap sequel, instead of an arc of MCU movies.

So what does that bode for Morales and company? IMO, these are the variants that end up as tv series someday and not in theaters. So Marvel is cutting their nose off for what, then?

As for Hulk directly. I finally read Indestructible Hulk by Waid, and that's probably the best new material you could build a Hulk movie from. Some aspects are too MCUish for my tastes, but Waid's take on Banner is the best in quite some time. Defines him in a way that is much more logical than anything Peter David did in the 90's.

[daz71]

when did the rot set in with comics.i was only a reader of the avengers on a monthly basis and they seemed to go slowly downhill after #250 with their best characters leaving and with them a lot of warmth and humour.but i had stopped before all the politically correct craziness started.