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The Batman & Robin appreciation thread

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  • MIB41
    Eloquent Member
    • Sep 25, 2005
    • 15633

    #16
    Batman & Robin has taken quite the journey with me. To say I've been to hell and back would not be too far removed from describing that reflective evolution. As a piece of movie making product, it deserves all the battering it gets. Never mind the treatment debate. Look at the glaring mistakes made by the director - Sloppy camera angles that show all the wire work; back cranking the video to place Robin back underwater with the vines; The icicles visibly wobbling; and the impossibly bad origin of Batgirl that demands you accept a costume as the only reason for her inclusion. And let's not even get started on how horrible Alfred is at keeping Batman's secret - But that actually goes as far back as the first Burton film.

    When I first saw B&R in theaters, I hated it. If I could have converted the master film to flammable nitrate stock, I would have lit the match. In retrospect I think the public DESERVED this film since they rewarded Schumacher with the huge success of Forever. Turning the Batsignal into a flirtation device and letting Dick convert the Batmobile into a hoopty car while he screamed, " Whoa look at my love machine bae-bae" was every bit as neglectful to Batman lore as anything B&R did. Perhaps even more so.

    Now I'll be the first to say, we can only take the premise of a guy dressing up as a bat to fight crime (with bat-themed weapons) only so serious. So the fact that Schumacher decided to have fun with the premise never bothered me entirely. But what changed my view about this film over time (mostly through forced watching) were my kids...and now my grandson. They love this movie (and ONLY this movie from that period). At first, I just took it as a basic lack of understanding for the material (on their part). But what I began to realize was maybe the misunderstanding resided more on my side. I started to see what the kids were loving that older crowds wouldn't or couldn't accept - the look and innocence of the film.

    While the movie is a treacherous ride on the brain, it's very easy on the eyes. It's an all out attack on the sensory nerves. And that's what kids experience. In many ways it's a beautiful looking picture. I like the soundtrack and I love the lighting, even when it's ill-served in some scenes. The heroes and villains are over-the-top, but even they can make up and help each other at the end. So thematically it's really a positive feeling movie throughout. It's truly a comic book come to life (just with really bad writing ). So I give it loads of style points these days for maintaining a tone consistently throughout the whole film.

    When I've had a tough day and my grandson comes in and says, " Batman! Batman!!" I smile and sit down to put the movie in. And he watches it all the way through with an immense interest and love for everything going on. When Robin screams, "Cowabunga!" he screams right along with him. When some of my older kids are over, they'll sit down (if it's on) and watch some of it too and reflect on how many warm memories they have about it. They clearly understand it's an absurd film these days, but that doesn't rob them of the great memories they had when they were kids. Kind of sounds like our hobby doesn't it? So who am I to criticize a film that I've watched entertain and bring smiles to more than one generation in my own family?

    So these days, I accept the film on it's own terms. Watching it now brings a smile to my face, because I understand I hold someone in my lap who is so happy when he watches it. And whether he watches it every day or only once a week, I can take that ride right along side him and I'm happier for it each time. So fundamentally there must be something there that speaks well to kids and to the kid in some of us as we get older. So it's clearly a film that will endure for generations ahead of us. And if the reasons were because it made them feel good, I think that's a good reason to continue on.
    Last edited by MIB41; Jul 1, '14, 12:45 PM.

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    • huedell
      Museum Ball Eater
      • Dec 31, 2003
      • 11069

      #17
      It is (as Chris said), "dumb"---I know that's a subjective word---but, it is THICK with stupid puns and one-dimensional gags. I understand enjoying a movie because it's "fun"---and I'll even put this on every so often to see if I can enjoy it more, but I'm always left with the same feeling. Absolutely nothing redeemable in it as far as dialogue or plot, and that doesn't sit well with me, especially when paired up with a life threatening disease foisted on Alfred. PLUS, even if they would've kept the same exact writing style, I still think they should've amped up Comm Gordon's role, and brought in Batgirl as the Comm's daughter.
      "No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris Mannix

      Comment

      • palitoy
        live. laugh. lisa needs braces
        • Jun 16, 2001
        • 59794

        #18
        Originally posted by MIB41
        So these days, I accept the film on it's own terms. Watching it now brings a smile to my face, because I understand I hold someone in my lap who is so happy when he watches it.
        That's the sole reason I can no longer smash this movie, my kid liked it. I remember when I bought it for him i thought "am I really doing this?" but he got a lot of joy out of it.

        He's moved on to the Bale movies now and we amuse each other with terrible Mr Freeze impersonations, "Ice to see you".
        Places to find PlaidStallions online: https://linktr.ee/Plaidstallions

        Buy Toy-Ventures Magazine here:
        http://www.plaidstallions.com/reboot/shop

        Comment

        • Earth 2 Chris
          Verbose Member
          • Mar 7, 2004
          • 32970

          #19
          Well said Tom. Just like we thought Adam West's adventures were completely straight and serious as kids, our kids and grandkids take B&R just as seriously. My son was freaked out by Nicholson's Joker and DeVito's Penguin, so 66, Forever and B&R were the Bat-films of choice for him growing up. Like Brian's son, he quickly moved onto the Nolan films, which he of course now prefers. But my daughter still enjoys the occasional dip into Schumacher madness.

          Chris
          sigpic

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          • enyawd72
            Maker of Monsters!
            • Oct 1, 2009
            • 7904

            #20
            Yay! I have the mental faculties of a toddler! That explains all the toys.

            Comment

            • palitoy
              live. laugh. lisa needs braces
              • Jun 16, 2001
              • 59794

              #21
              Originally posted by enyawd72
              Yay! I have the mental faculties of a toddler! That explains all the toys.
              I spent all last weekend watching Japanese kid's shows, basically it was teletubbies with fighting. I for one, am not casting aspersion on anybody's mental capacity for liking what they like.
              Places to find PlaidStallions online: https://linktr.ee/Plaidstallions

              Buy Toy-Ventures Magazine here:
              http://www.plaidstallions.com/reboot/shop

              Comment

              • MIB41
                Eloquent Member
                • Sep 25, 2005
                • 15633

                #22
                Originally posted by enyawd72
                Yay! I have the mental faculties of a toddler! That explains all the toys.
                Omigod. I about wet myself. But hey, at least we're staying on the toddler theme, right? Honestly Dwayne when I see your artwork, it's easy to look at this film and see why you have so much love for it. Those bright colors and beautiful lighting are exactly the type of style you give so many of your subjects. It's magical and I love it. Don't ever lose that inner child. Pure gold there.

                Originally posted by palitoy
                That's the sole reason I can no longer smash this movie, my kid liked it. I remember when I bought it for him i thought "am I really doing this?" but he got a lot of joy out of it.

                He's moved on to the Bale movies now and we amuse each other with terrible Mr Freeze impersonations, "Ice to see you".
                Same here Brian. My older kids love the Nolan films, but B&R retains a warm (and respected) place in their hearts. I like to think of fond memories as a source to shore up good will when bad times fall upon us. So they serve as a vital role down the road. Both my collection and reflections on "better days" have certainly helped counter balance the rough spots for myself when I'm having to wear different hats for others in a crisis. Definitely a tool to maintain your bearings.

                Originally posted by Earth 2 Chris
                Well said Tom. Just like we thought Adam West's adventures were completely straight and serious as kids, our kids and grandkids take B&R just as seriously. My son was freaked out by Nicholson's Joker and DeVito's Penguin, so 66, Forever and B&R were the Bat-films of choice for him growing up. Like Brian's son, he quickly moved onto the Nolan films, which he of course now prefers. But my daughter still enjoys the occasional dip into Schumacher madness.

                Chris
                Exactly Chris. Sometimes the untainted views of youth carries it's own wisdom through innocence that those jaded with experience can no longer detect.
                Last edited by MIB41; Jul 1, '14, 2:55 PM.

                Comment

                • PNGwynne
                  Master of Fowl Play
                  • Jun 5, 2008
                  • 19948

                  #23
                  Originally posted by enyawd72
                  Yay! I have the mental faculties of a toddler! That explains all the toys.
                  lol That's great, D.

                  Schumacher said on the DVD (somewhat apologetic) commentary that he was pressed to make the film kid-friendly & "toyetic" (his term--is that a word? ).

                  Yes, I do own B&R on DVD (but not SIII).

                  Btw, glad to see you back, Tom.
                  WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

                  Comment

                  • jds1911a1
                    Alan Scott is the best GL
                    • Aug 8, 2007
                    • 3556

                    #24
                    Originally posted by PNGwynne
                    Wha!? That's just crazy talk!

                    Seriously, though, I loathe B&R, which is bizarre I guess because I love the TV show so much. Nothing in it worked for me--not the "story", casting, art direction or costumes.

                    I do see how it could be perceived as a '66 redux, but for me it lacked homor and style--it crossed that fine line between camp & kitsch.

                    And gods, Batgirl was awful.
                    I said I guess to be polite only becuase I always felt Eli's freeze was the worst on the show and hadn't seen his epeisodes for a while having watched them over the weekend I no longer guess Arnold might have been better - he wasn't

                    Comment

                    • Operation:Mego
                      I'm the Star Spangled Man
                      • May 21, 2011
                      • 3350

                      #25
                      sigpic
                      The event where the fans are separated from the true fans.

                      Comment

                      • PNGwynne
                        Master of Fowl Play
                        • Jun 5, 2008
                        • 19948

                        #26
                        It's just my taste-- I like Wallach & esp. Sanders. Preminger is stiff and bland, but he has the best look.

                        Originally posted by jds1911a1
                        I said I guess to be polite only becuase I always felt Eli's freeze was the worst on the show and hadn't seen his epeisodes for a while having watched them over the weekend I no longer guess Arnold might have been better - he wasn't
                        WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

                        Comment

                        • MIB41
                          Eloquent Member
                          • Sep 25, 2005
                          • 15633

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Operation:Mego
                          Good scene. I like that and the bedside scene where Bruce says he loves him. You know what's interesting about this installment? Clooney spends probably the least amount of time as Bruce Wayne than any other actor. Yes he's in many scenes, but they are very brief with minimal exchange. He's mostly in costume throughout the film. Clooney said they actually had a number of scenes with him reflecting on his parents demise. It would be interesting to see how those played out.

                          Comment

                          • palitoy
                            live. laugh. lisa needs braces
                            • Jun 16, 2001
                            • 59794

                            #28
                            Originally posted by PNGwynne
                            Schumacher said on the DVD (somewhat apologetic) commentary that he was pressed to make the film kid-friendly & "toyetic" (his term--is that a word? ).
                            it's not a dictionary word but it's an industry term, basically he made the property as easy to merchandise as possible by adding new characters, vehicles and multiple outfit changes.

                            It's why Batman gets a new Batmobile in B&R and Forever. It's likely why the Superman outfit will get altered for the next movie.
                            Places to find PlaidStallions online: https://linktr.ee/Plaidstallions

                            Buy Toy-Ventures Magazine here:
                            http://www.plaidstallions.com/reboot/shop

                            Comment

                            • Gorn Captain
                              Invincible Ironing Man
                              • Feb 28, 2008
                              • 10549

                              #29
                              I can't help it, I liked Arnie as Mr. Freeze, and his costume, and his silly lines. I'd buy a decent figure of his Freeze, no question about it.
                              Clooney didn't work as Batman, that I'll agree to (and so does George)...

                              My favorite Batman movie of that era remains Batman Forever, it is just on that thin line between Gothic Burton and OTT/Kitsch Schumacher. It's the one Jim Carrey "crazy man" role I can enjoy...
                              I never really got into the Burton Batman films, though I did feel Keaton did well in the part...
                              .
                              .
                              .
                              "When things are at their darkest, it's a brave man that can kick back and party."

                              Comment

                              • Earth 2 Chris
                                Verbose Member
                                • Mar 7, 2004
                                • 32970

                                #30
                                Good scene. I like that and the bedside scene where Bruce says he loves him. You know what's interesting about this installment? Clooney spends probably the least amount of time as Bruce Wayne than any other actor. Yes he's in many scenes, but they are very brief with minimal exchange. He's mostly in costume throughout the film. Clooney said they actually had a number of scenes with him reflecting on his parents demise. It would be interesting to see how those played out.
                                The Alfred subplot is nicely handled by Gough and Clooney, but it unfortunately doesn't fit with the rest of the film's campy tone. The movie is too far overboard otherwise. Almost like taking a scene from Steel Magnoilas and throwing into Airplane.

                                There's a huge chunk of Batman Forever on the cutting room floor somewhere as well. Seal's "Kiss from a Rose" video and various trading cards, magazines, etc. show Val Kilmer ineracting with a giant, Rick Baker-created bat. I think this was meant to go in the scene where Bruce flashes back to his father's journal and his origins. Instead you get a LONG close-up of Kilmer's eye for some mad reason. You see a bit of the bat when Riddler reads Bruce's mind.

                                Chris
                                sigpic

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