Man of Steel review - WITH SPOILERS

[emeraldknight47]

Wow, spacecaps, I think I may have to nominate you for THE longest post ever, buddy!

[Hector]

You are only noticing this now?




P.S, just teasing, spacecaps, we all appreciate your posts...

[Hector]

From various Yahoo talk backers:

Correct me if im wrong but didn't Superman throw Zod into an icy doom in Superman 2? That was after he was rendered human by the Kyrptonian chamber and was no physical threat after that which means Superman murdered a defenseless human. I was cool with it because Zod had it coming even then. Leslie put your cape back on get a grip n stop crying about Superman stopping a powerful villian who has already said he would never stop until Earth was destroyed and was driven mad by it which kicked major #$%$ I have a bigger problem with Jon Kent going to save to family dog during a tormado. I mean really the writers couldn't have done better with that scene.

Maybe killing Zod is what leads him to his never kill again policy?

I think this scene solidified Superman's respect and protective nature of Earth more than anything else in his 75 years on the page. To kill the only other person from your destroyed planet, your race, because what he was doing was morally wrong...I think that showcased the qualities that define... More

#$%$ is Superman suppose to do invite ZOD over for a cup of tea, i'm glad he killed ZOD the way he did. Zod was killing a whole family or group of people you could see Superman hated seeing them hurt and killign him was the only way to stop him.

To everyone that has a problem with this I ask. What did you expect Superman to do? Just watch as Zod fried the family? Then let Zod escape and engage in another battle that probably would not end? This movie did something that none of the other movies did, it showed an actual human side to Superman in that he knew he had to make a horrible decision, fought with it for a very long time, even tried to find ways around it and gave his enemy countless times to avoid the situation, then followed through with his decision. Not to mention, everyone seems to be missing a major line during their fight. Zod tells Kal, "There's only one way this will end, with your death or mine." So not only is Zod planning global genocide but he's also planning on killing Kal. So when the ultimate moment finally comes to a head, what were you all expecting him to do?

He had to, it was either Zod or the innocent people zod was about to blast with his heat vision. Superman made the best choice possible, No way this is bad for the character it showed what superman would have done when given the choice. Yes, it paints superman in a darker light, but its 100% correct as far as what he would do.


Most moviegoers feel this way, and that's why Man of Steel is a blockbuster, lol.

[Hector]

Look at all the threads on Man of Steel, look at the internet, look at the box office, whether you loved or hated it, everyone is talking about it...the movie has already won regardless...Zack Snyder and Chris Nolan are geniuses.. that violent Zod demise was masterfully planned, lol.

[PNGwynne]

Hec--god knows I dig that you like Superman--but consensus or popularity are not inherent indicators of quality or artistic merit.

[MegoSteve]

The theatrical ending of Superman II was had Superman hurling Zod into that pit presumably to his death, but the Donner Cut showed Zod, Non, and Ursa being led away in handcuffs and put in a police car.

Here's part of what Zack Snyder had to say about the end:

“I guess for me–and in the original version of the script he just got zapped into the Phantom Zone–David and I had long talks about it and Chris and I talked long about it and it was like, ‘I really think we should kill Zod and I really think Superman should kill him,’” Snyder explained. “And the why of it was, for me, that if it’s truly an origin story, his aversion to killing is unexplained. It’s just in his DNA. I felt like we needed him to do something, just like him putting on the glasses or going to the Daily Planet or any of the other things that you’re sort of seeing for the first time that you realize will then become his thing. I felt like, if we can find a way of making it impossible for him–like Kobayashi Maru, totally no way out–I felt like that could also make you go, ‘Okay, this is the why of him not killing ever again, right?’ He’s basically obliterated his entire people and his culture and he is responsible for it and he’s just like, ‘How could I kill ever again?’”

Source: http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/06/17...advised-on-it/

[madmarva]

Thanks for posting that Steve.

[B-Lister]

And they conveyed it perfectly. Superman even killed them in the comics. If you say it is out of character, you don't know Superman.

[spacecaps]

Wow, spacecaps, I think I may have to nominate you for THE longest post ever, buddy!

It's good to know my comments are appreciated at times. You should have seen the piece I wrote on Star Wars Episodes 1-3. I think it qualifies as a thesis on how not to make a movie. This isn't the first time I've taken a movie to task at length here. Skyfall got a pretty good lashing from me. So did Cabin in the Woods. It's not all negative stuff either. I loved Game of Thrones and have written long positive reviews of several of the episodes too. The Man of Steel review is certainly the lengthiest thing I've written here that's for sure. I think it's good to articulate sometimes instead of just saying, "I did not like that thing that I just saw." and who knows maybe I hit on something that, even if you don't agree with me on the whole, someone may have missed. Case in point, today at work a few of my colleagues were talking about what we thought of Man of Steel and I brought up the Superman as Jesus motif that runs throughout the film and not one of the people I was talking to that saw the movie over the weekend picked up on this. Once I mentioned it though, they couldn't unsee it. I just hope a lot of you guys read the whole thing. Sure it's long but I think the insight is valid and at the very least offers a different perspective to the movie. I've gotten a few positive PM's on it but I'm sure a lot of viewers took one look at the size of it and got a little scared by how big it is. I seem to get that a lot though.

[B-Lister]

I read it. I disagree with it almost entirely, but I read it.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. I loved it and I hope the majority of those who saw it loved it. I can't wait to see it again.

I just hope some of the negativity isn't just a bunch of Marvel fans who can't get over the notion that DC did good. But I can't shake that feeling.

If you truly hated it, I won't begrudge you that opinion. I don't like the Donner films and never will. But I think everybody deserves the chance to go see it and make up their own minds. I don't want my opinion influencing someone to go see it any more than I want a negative opinion keeping someone away.

But I am realistic enough to know these things sink or swim not only on their merits, but by word of mouth. There's enough on both sides that it doesn't really matter, but the film is going to do well regardless.

[spacecaps]

Look at all the threads on Man of Steel, look at the internet, look at the box office, whether you loved or hated it, everyone is talking about it...the movie has already won regardless...Zack Snyder and Chris Nolan are geniuses.. that violent Zod demise was masterfully planned, lol.

That was something else I was talking about today too. If a movie is both loved and hated, did it do it's job better than a movie that is mostly loved OR mostly hated. When a movie is universally embraced the conversation usually starts and ends with why it was good and there's nothing else to talk about. Like does anyone ever rag on The Wizard of Oz? I'm sure there are people out there that don't like it (and those people don't have souls) but it's such a universally accepted and beloved classic film that you would get shouted down if you ever tried to start a conversation with, "Here's why the Wizard of Oz was terrible..."

On the flip side, a movie that is so awful that it's reviled by the public doesn't get viewed by the masses and becomes a punch-line. Battlefield Earth was a movie I heard so many terrible things about, I never had to sit through it to experience it's terribleness first hand. I have honestly never heard one positive thing about that movie ever so why bother. But with Man Of Steel, just on this site alone there are no less than four current and lively threads about the movie and the character. What I wonder about right now is the word of mouth reaction this film is going to have in the weeks to come. Remember when the first Iron Man came out and as the weeks went on, it got more popular. Star Trek is kind of experiencing this right now on a smaller scale too. Conversely, last year when Spiderman came out it took off like a rocket it's first week but in a few weeks the word had gotten around that it just wasn't that good and it was out of the theaters in a flash. A few years ago Watchmen got the same word of mouth treatment too.Fans of the film went out to see it and wanted to like it, tried so hard to like it but by the end of March, the word was the movie didn't click on many, many levels and it was erased from the publics consciousness. Obviously this is the week that all the fanboys are turning out to see Man of Steel but I would have to think that if there's a 50/50 love/hate split or even a 60/40 split the intrigue surrounding "what makes people respond so strongly one way or the other to this picture" would make the casual moviegoer and the fringe fan more curious to see what all the fuss is about. I also think time will tell if this movie holds up. Remember, Batman Begins became a better movie after The Dark Knight came out a few years later.

One thing I didn't mention before was the death of Zod. I really didn't have a problem with this scene, which is funny because from what I gather many fans of the film did not agree with Superman killing him. The way I saw it was that this is an origin story. Superman has to learn to controll his powers. He has to learn to not kill even when it's the most convenient and necessary options available. By killing Zod, this was perhaps the most pivotal lesson he learns and maybe the final step in becoming the Man of Steel. Perhaps the trauma he experiences by truly realizing the potential of his power is so jarring that he vows to never do it again. It's Batman's "Thou shalt not kill" creed in reverse. Batman doesn't kill because it's what separates him from the bad guys, right? This is brought on by witnessing the murder of his parents. Well, what if Superman learns to not kill by killing the first true nemesis he comes across. Experiencing the psychological fallout that comes with the act of taking a life is a powerful lesson and probably one that can only truly be learned by experiencing it first hand. Batman never kills because if he does he will forever blur the lines of what makes him the good guy and those he pursues the bad guys. Superman doesn't kill because he knows he's better than that. His parent's and his upbringing both demand that of him and it takes the act of actually taking a life for him to come to this realization that he needs to be better than every single person on Earth. Killing Zod is the one time in the movie where, if he doesn't do the unthinkable, other innocent lives will be lost in the process. He has to make a choice to go against everything he was taught in order to save the lives of the innocent and live with the consequences of the aftermath. To me that's the grittiest thing in the movie and I just wish there was more of those kinds of complicated moral dilemmas in the movie. It would have been more poignant if the writers took a little more time to round out Zod's character too because when he died, it seemed like a justified end to the masses. If they had made Zod's character a little more complex and a little more relatable, the psychological impact of killing Zod on Superman's conscience would have been glaring to even the most casual audience member.

I just hope some of the negativity isn't just a bunch of Marvel fans who can't get over the notion that DC did good. But I can't shake that feeling.
If you truly hated it, I won't begrudge you that opinion. I don't like the Donner films and never will. But I think everybody deserves the chance to go see it and make up their own minds. I don't want my opinion influencing someone to go see it any more than I want a negative opinion keeping someone away.

For the record, my feelings on this movie have nothing to do with which company I like more. If I had to choose a side, I'm a much bigger DC fan then I am a Marvel one anyway. This is the Superman with Spoiler thread too so I imagine that anyone reading this particular thread has already scene the movie or doesn't mind hearing everything about the film before their initial viewing.

[Hector]

Fair enough, spacecaps.

[Hector]

Hec--god knows I dig that you like Superman--but consensus or popularity are not inherent indicators of quality or artistic merit.

But I'm the leader of those Yahoo readers, it's my army, I win...

[Hector]

The theatrical ending of Superman II was had Superman hurling Zod into that pit presumably to his death, but the Donner Cut showed Zod, Non, and Ursa being led away in handcuffs and put in a police car.

Here's part of what Zack Snyder had to say about the end:



Source: http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/06/17...advised-on-it/

The theatrical version is what counts, Superman disposes of Zod after crushing his hand into a thousand pieces, he also tricked them, which is cheating, not too becoming of the big blue boy scout...Lois Lane also murders Ursa, and don't get me started on the big guy, poor fella, had a 70 IQ, Supes took advantage of that, shame for messing with a mentally challenged individual, RIP big guy.

The Donner cut is irrelevant, it was a deleted theatrical cut, no dice.

Shame on that Supes, shame, lol.

[B-Lister]

Spacecaps: sounds like you didn't outright revile the movie. It seems like it settled on you a bit. Maybe you'll never love it, but just maybe a sequel could make it a better experience.

Regardless, the film is a hit.

It will take a bit of a hit next week when Monsters University opens, but I think it's got enough steam to carry it through.