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**madmarva** · May 5, '13, 12:39 PM

Tom, I agree IM3 suffers from the same type of script sloppiness that has afflicted other third outings by super hero characters/franchises, but the conclusion that it will bleed over into Avengers 2 isn't justified, imo.

Black and his scripting partner aren't writing Avengers 2. Whedon is. While RDJ is formidable and his loss, if it happens, wouldn't help Avengers 2, it doesn't doom it, either. RDJ's performance in Avengers wasn't a revelation, imo, but the fact Evans, Hemsworth and even Ruffalo weren't overpowered by him, was. I credit Whedon's scripting and direction for that accomplishment and I think it is what lifted the movie above the norm in quality and box office.

Now, it will be difficult for Whedon or anyone to duplicate or match the success of the Avengers, but that doesn't mean the sequel will be terrible with or without RDJ.

**MIB41** · May 5, '13, 1:16 PM

Originally posted by madmarva

Tom, I agree IM3 suffers from the same type of script sloppiness that has afflicted other third outings by super hero characters/franchises, but the conclusion that it will bleed over into Avengers 2 isn't justified, imo.

Black and his scripting partner aren't writing Avengers 2. Whedon is. While RDJ is formidable and his loss, if it happens, wouldn't help Avengers 2, it doesn't doom it, either. RDJ's performance in Avengers wasn't a revelation, imo, but the fact Evans, Hemsworth and even Ruffalo weren't overpowered by him, was. I credit Whedon's scripting and direction for that accomplishment and I think it is what lifted the movie above the norm in quality and box office.

Now, it will be difficult for Whedon or anyone to duplicate or match the success of the Avengers, but that doesn't mean the sequel will be terrible with or without RDJ.

I think Avengers 2 is in trouble for many reasons. But first let me say that anything Whedon does will likely be good conceptually. But RDJ was the main draw of the Avengers. The Iron Man films have made more than twice the money of any other Marvel character involved in this. In fact Iron man 3's first weekend gross may surpass the domestic life run of Cap's first film. Now that's a statement! And lets be realistic here. Downey has been asked to say some pretty cheesy lines in these films. But his charisma and delivery sells them. That's why I say he is the glue to the Marvel universe. If Stark says it exists, we believe him. Very much in the same way that Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill sold the original Star Wars trilogy. So taking him out of the picture and putting someone else in is not an apples to apples balance. I think taking Downey out combined with the novelty worn off from the first Avengers makes for a steep drop in interest. I'm confident Joss Whedon can write a very good story. But I think Downey will not be as replaceable as some may think. These films do have to ride on the credibility of performances. And I only made it through Iron Man 3 because of RDJ. That film wouldn't have had a tenth of intrigue in it, without him there. And you see what a blockbuster it's already becoming. So I think Downey is a huge piece of the Marvel universe. As talented as Whedon is, I'm not sure you can write around Downey's absence. Which is why Whedon said what he said after he saw it. But this may all be a moot discussion. Because if this film really brings home huge money, I think Downey is in a position to have one last big pay day for the Avengers. And if Disney and Marvel are SMART, they'll bring him back. I think we can agree on that.

**madmarva** · May 5, '13, 1:52 PM

Whedon's wise to try to keep expectations in check with or without RDJ. But I agree Marvel made its best decision when it cast RDJ as IM with No. 2 being the choice of Whedon to direct Avengers. As cheap as Marvel is with paying it's players, they'll pay RDJ his price if IM3 continues to perform like it is. Marvel won't be able to afford not to, and he won't be able to ultimately turn down that much cash and or clout. If I were RDJ, I'd ask for a piece of the company plus the cash.

I think the key to making the Avengers 2 work is rolling new characters in to mix with some of the old crew and again deftly casting those parts with as much charisma as possible. I don't know if Quicksilver and the scarlet Witch are the right characters. I'd get The Rock and have him play Wonder Man as a Trojan Horse villain amid the team. Not that Wonder Man is that great of a character, but people like watching the Rock and Wonder Man fits him.

**MIB41** · May 5, '13, 2:01 PM

Originally posted by madmarva

Whedon's wise to try to keep expectations in check with or without RDJ. But I agree Marvel made its best decision when it cast RDJ as IM with No. 2 being the choice of Whedon to direct Avengers. As cheap as Marvel is with paying it's players, they'll pay RDJ his price if IM3 continues to perform like it is. Marvel won't be able to afford not to, and he won't be able to ultimately turn down that much cash and or clout. If I were RDJ, I'd ask for a piece of the company plus the cash.

I absolutely agree. Well said.

**thunderbolt** · May 5, '13, 4:41 PM

Does Iron Man even need to be in A2? With the rotating line up, they could go right into Cap's kook quartet.

**MIB41** · May 5, '13, 4:56 PM

Originally posted by thunderbolt

Does Iron Man even need to be in A2? With the rotating line up, they could go right into Cap's kook quartet.

Well when you consider all the Marvel films where Robert Downey Jr. was the lead star have grossed $3.4 billion (and growing), then compare it to the rest COMBINED, it's only $1.1 billion. I would say Mr. Downey Jr. has a serious bargaining chip for Avengers 2.

**thunderbolt** · May 5, '13, 5:03 PM

he could cameo in it and step down as chairman or whatever and turn it over to Cap, keep Widow, Hawkeye and bring in Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. IF Thor is busy, Bring in Herc.

**hedrap** · May 5, '13, 9:16 PM

Originally posted by Earth 2 Chris

I liked it. I anticipated the Mandarin twist because of things folks said here. I don't think anyone expected Mandarin to be Chinese once they cast Kingsly, so I can't see the plot twist as being to appease the Chinese government or whatever.
Chris

Here's how it works with China.

You can make a movie anywhere in the world you want and then submit it for release. The regulatory board will then tell you what must be cut. If you don't comply, you don't get a release. If you comply, you get a release date they pick because it's around 35 international movies only get domestic release dates. Ticket sales are then split by several parties, with the studio/producers getting about 25%.

That's the usual method.

But with Marvel, they decided they wanted to shoot in China, because it re-labels the film a "local production" and gives the studio/producers about an additional 15-20% of the ticket sales.

Shooting in country means everything goes before the regulatory board, starting in development. They then make suggestions. You comply, or you don't shoot.

I used the MIB3 example earlier to show they're still a communist country at heart, and take propaganda very seriously. If they can't handle nameless asian actors being killed on-screen by aliens, no way in hell would they be cool with the villain of a massive franchise being named after a central piece of their culture, since a main charter of the regulatory board is to "protect the culture".

So it's really a question of when did they make the change, which is most likely before Kingsly was signed. Black admitted to changing the character, so that means the original idea was to still build off of the groundwork of the first two. When you really think it through, why even bother to use the Mandarin and shoot in China, if your goal is to not associate the character with the country? They would have been better off with MODOK and teasing the Mandarin by shooting in China.

**kept back** · May 5, '13, 9:31 PM

Would a post credits scene showing Kingsley escaping jail in some bad *** fashion, thus revealing that he was the real Mandarin an setting up #4, had helped this film at all?

**Earth 2 Chris** · May 6, '13, 5:35 AM

I thought the post credits scene was fun. My son asked early in the film "Where's Banner?" Well, there he was!

Chris

**megojim** · May 6, '13, 11:09 AM

though I can't disagree with some of the comments . . . . i enjoyed it for what it is, a summer movie . . . . hopefully the next installment will be tighter

**ctc** · May 6, '13, 12:18 PM

>They then make suggestions. You comply, or you don't shoot

Still more fair than the MPAA.

Don C.

**Bronxboykev** · May 6, '13, 1:20 PM

Comic book Universes have Been brought up, to be Torn down, to be Brought back up again...

I think we CAN'T caught up in comic book continuity where a MULTIUNIVERSE exists. Especially when dealing with Hollywood.

Imo I'll put this into my own perspective it was an action movie so I wanted to take 2 things away from this; Was there Action? Yes...Did it entertain me? Absolutely...

and I loved!!! The scene at the end... It is always great to see a tie in to another movie.

**Operation:Mego** · Jul 9, '13, 11:11 AM

Finally, finally, finally, FINALLY after months of delays, I finally saw 3. Here are my thoughts I had during the film (some things might be out of order):

RDJ is perfect as always, he really is Iron Man. Peirce was prefect as Killian, you hated every second he was on the screen (except for the '99 scene probably). Gwyneth got to kick some *** as Pepper, which was pretty awesome to see. Cheadle as Rhodey got some nice laughs and Hall as Maya was good too. Glad to see that she redeemed herself in the end. And Kingsley nailed it. He was absolutely terrifying as "The Mandarin" and got the biggest laughs as Trevor.

I thought it was cool that they actually showed the Bern conference referenced in the first film, as I never thought they would actually go so in-depth to actually bring up a throwaway line again. I also thought it was genius of Black to tie it into this film's plot as well. "First guy I ever met called Ho.'"

1999 Happy is hilarious, being so overprotective of every minor thing that happened. He was also pretty funny in the modern day scenes too. Apparently being promoted to head of security from bodyguard/chauffer gives you a big ego.

The first Mark 42 suit-up scene was hilarious (An armored codpiece to the balls…ouch.). Don’t expect anything with Tony to go smoothly.

Tony suffering from PTSD after the battle of New York is really smart and a realistic direction to go in. It gives him more depth and emotion as we learn more about the MAN in Iron Man.

“It’s a giant bunny okay!? Just relax about it!!!”

The Mansion Attack was intense. I couldn’t help but feel a tad sorry for You as it laid helpless on the ground. Glad to see Tony recovered him in the end. Just goes to show you why you shouldn’t call out a terrorist and give him your home address.

I loved all of the references to The Avengers film; the alien invasion, wormhole in the sky, even the team themselves. Killian also mentions Thor when he first came to Earth ("ever since that big dude with a hammer fell out of the sky, subtlety's kinda had its day.").

Tony and Harley had great chemistry together, making for some really touching, and hilarious, scenes together. I thought Tony giving most of his tech stuff to him at the end was a nice way to thank him for all of his help.

"Is that all you've got? A cheap trick and a cheesy one-liner?"
"Sweetheart, a cheap trick and a cheesy one-liner could be the name of my autobiography."
That exchange is perfect. My favorite line of the movie.

You gotta love a Stan Lee cameo! Always.

Ah, the Mandarin twist…something I unintentionally before the film was even released, something I hated when I read it and something I was prepared to hate when I saw it on screen. And yet…I don't hate it. I thought it was actually kind of clever. Though had they not advertised it as "MANDARIN DESTROYS TONY STARK'S WORLD! BEN KINGSLEY IS THE MANDARIN! HE HAS THE 10 RINGS!! HE'S THE ONLY BAD GUY SHOWN IN EVERY TRAILER, TV SPOT and INTERVIEW!" I might've liked it a little more. It wasn't quite as good as the Ducard/Ghul twist in Begins, it was still pretty decent. Though I wonder how I would feel actually seeing it in the theater…

The Air Force One sequence was tense and suspenseful. You never knew what was going to happen…especially Tony not being in the suit. That was a big surprise and got tons of laughs.

The final battle was epic! It was so awesome seeing Tony jump from suit, to suit, to suit! And Pepper finally got to kick some *** too! "Why don't you dress like that at home? Sports bra and the rest."

Wow, he blows up his suits (except the Igor one apparently), removes the shrapnel from his heart, and the arc-reactor as well…what’s next for Tony Stark now?

I didn’t not expect that post-credits scene; Marvel should be thanking the heavens that they got Downey.
Tyler's Iron Man theme is fantastic, way more heroic than the others and it fits it the natural evolution of the theme. It's his best theme yet. Let's hope they use it TA2 and TA3. That's right, Marvel pulled out their wallets and Downey's contract has been extended. Was there really any doubt?

Overall, I really enjoyed it. Iron Man 3 is a fantastic start to start Phase 2 of the MCU. It boasts a witty, well-written script, with twists throughout, features a sharp direction, and is strengthened by a fantastic ensemble cast with superb acting.

**Operation:Mego** · Jul 10, '13, 9:00 PM

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but after seeing it twice, these are just some thoughts that came to me. Not to mention that the film brings up some of your complaints.