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This seemed like a good place for a fitting tribute to the late, great Carmine Infantino's Joker. Now he got it RIGHT!
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Is there a story line that explains his look, or did he just show up looking like this? I used to read a lot of Batman comics when I was younger, and am not familiar with the "New 52"Last edited by Killer Iguana; Apr 10, '13, 2:19 PM.Comment
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It really was a sh---y design. And pointless. Why tear his face off if you just plan on stapling it back on again?? And the story was just...ugh. I was sick of it like 3 issues in. That's 3 scattered along the entire Batfamily issues. So a month in I had had enough. How did a guy with no face go unnoticed in the world for an entire year?? Let alone how did he hire like a 100 followers to help him in his plan during that year. It was stupid and the ending left me cold and wondering why I'm still standing up for DC.
As it turns out, a trip to my cousins introduced me to what is going on over in Marvel. I'm a DC reader since I was 4. Batman and Robin are my heroes of choice. But All New X-Men blew me away!! I read all 9 issues in a day. I plan on buying issue 10. Then I intend to cancel DC for a years time (with the exception of the Batman Beyond and Batman 1966 which don't play out in continuity). Then I will reassess where they stand. If they stand at all by then.Comment
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>How did a guy with no face go unnoticed in the world for an entire year??
In Gotham, where every third person is a supervillain? I could let that slide.
>how did he hire like a 100 followers to help him in his plan during that year
Craigslist?
This has always been a sticking point in superhero books for me: where do the bad guys get their minions? And what happens to them after the hero comes in and punches everybody? You seldom see them carted off to jail, or even present come the inevitable wide shot of the defeated baddie. I'd always imagined it's the same dozen or so dudes, slinking from one arch villain to the next. "Well, the Riddler's in jail.... but I heard Poison Ivy's hiring."
"Ugh. I still got a rash from the last time we worked for her. What about the Penguin?"
"Him? He's a loser!"
"Yeah, but he brings donuts to the planning meetings."
>Capullo oversold this, for one.
I think THIS has been the greatest sin of the Big Two-ish for a while: that they overhype everything they do. It baffles the potential fans 'cos they don't understand why whatever's been done is a big deal; and it cheeses off the oldster fans 'cos they know it's going to be more of the same.
Don C.Comment
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Re:Overhype. I agree. It's been out of control for several years now. When Quesada goes to SXSW and just starts pimping a new dawn, and delivers a bunch of ideas that were not thought out, you know they're desperate for attention.
And that's what's driving most of this; the need for attention, which is not the same as marketing. Attention calls, from an leading business are usually driven by fear. To me, Dido seems terrified just as Quesada was pre-Disney buy.
That's true when it comes to canon. The buyer has a personal investment that, when discarded arbitrarily, creates blowback. I think Ultimates, Elseworld and a few others show you can rework the characters and keep the audience.you need an audience that would be receptive to new ideas. A lot of the superhero fans (or readers, at least) are pretty oldschool and have an inherent resistance to new stuff.
Totally agree. For me, if they were not going to retool things at the foundation, what's the point? For example, I knew 52 was going to be a bust when they decided to keep the Robin monicker with Batman, and not move it to Green Arrow, or at least associate Speedy with Flash. The only difference between Zero Hour and 52 is WB put their influence in 52.What DC (and Marvel) REALLY need to do is to completely sweep EVERYTHING aside.... fans be damned.... and COMPLETELY rethink EVERYTHING. For real. Not just "Superman has his panties on the inside now" rethinking. Like they did in the Silver Age. THEN they could do something that'd actually attract new readers. But that's not going to happen. The business end is WAY too entrenched to the old ways of doing things.Comment
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The Joker needs no re-invention. Even the Nolan version was not a re-interpetation. It fit with what was established-just a lower key version. This is just garbage.Last edited by johnmiic; Apr 10, '13, 7:22 PM.Comment
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>that's what's driving most of this; the need for attention, which is not the same as marketing
I think there SHOULD be a difference, but one of the things they're still hampered by is the 90's designer comics fad; wherein folks would buy a comic 'cos of who worked on it.... mostly for investment potential.... over any other consideration. They seem to be trying to replicate that success; not realizing the speculators are gone, and the kids/young adult comic fans are used to stuff that's always in print. The paradigm has shifted, and they won't, or can't see that.
I bet on "can't," myself. Big companies are notoriously bad at noticing stuff like that, and there's a long history of the "mainstream" companies being contemptuous of "lesser" publishers.
>That's true when it comes to canon. The buyer has a personal investment that, when discarded arbitrarily, creates blowback.
I think this is a tricky one. You're right; but the definition of "cannon" is more fluid. It's why folks are okay with all the different versions of a character that exist before they got into comics, outraged by every little change that happens NOW, even if said changes are the same as something that happened back in the accepted days. For the oldster fan a lot of the change is actually inside them; their perspective, their age, their experience.... you never come into something totally clean. Hence why I think a complete wipe would be the thing to do for DC and Marvel. Complete and TOTAL; without leaning on the past for easy outs or names to pillage. Sorta how Crisis was. The original one.
'Course, that'll lead to all sorts of complaints from the oldsters; hence why I say it should be done despite them. I also think they'd need to address a few serious problems with the new redo. Stuff like the passage of time,and how it relates to a perpetual comic that will presumably have long term readers. Like I said; the paradigm has changed. Your old fans don't move on, and your pool of new fans is gonna bring in all sorts of expectations based on what's going on in the bigger world. Some of it's obvious: if your character is an Iraq war vet, that war is eventually gonna be a LONG time in the past. (Like how Reed Richards and Ben Grimm met during WW2.) Some of it'll be less obvious: things like cell phones, and how that would have affected past stories, IF you're gonna maintain that everything happens in a "contemporary" time frame.
You might be able to get away with ignoring it; like they did for a long time.... but it's inevitable that some obsessive fan is gonna point out a weird time-slip. At which point it MAY become harder to ignore, depending on how you play it off.
Or you could do like "Zot," where it's always 1965.
Don C.Comment
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I read the whole series and all of the Batman books that it tied into including that crap that called Teen Titans that it went into.
DC really just scrapes the toilet bowl and thinks they are reinventing characters but they are just making up new ones using DC's classic heroes to jump start them. They are ruining the classics.
It's almost as bad as that "Arrow" TV show. It feels like they throw around a bunch of names from the DC universe they drew from a hat. Kick that crap to the curb also. His name is Green Arrow, not the hood or vigilante.
Not to change the subject but that mess called the Joker awhile back that looked like Leather-face was just sick and stupid. DC 52 keeps digging themselves deeper in a hole they will not get out of. What next? Two- Face with a face plastic surgery and he's a good guy that works with Batman?
Here's a few more DC 52 Bat villain ideas.... Riddler is transgendered and gets a sex operation?
Penquin dawns a longer black coat and stands on the corner naked and becomes Gotham's flasher.
Commissioner Gordon announces that he is gay.
Mr. Freeze starts his own line of Freeze Pops and turns good and sells them to kids.
Catwoman gets new powers and turns into a half cat-like creature with vicious claws that eats humans.
The Ventriloquist gets a long gray sock puppet after Scar face is destroyed.
Alfred gets the Gout
Jason Todd goes back to the grave
Dick Grayson decides to put back on the original Robin suit on with hairy legs and all and become Robin again at age 25
Red Robin accidentally gets sucked into the Batplanes engine while flying by with his ridiculousness bird wings and he is killed.
Batgirl becomes the new Spokes person for Jenny Craig
Batman reveals to the word on television, "that would just be crazy being a super hero but anyway I wanted to say...yeah I'm really Batman."Last edited by Cosmicman; Apr 11, '13, 9:23 PM.More custom Mego madness on Facebook right here...
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>What next? Two- Face with a face plastic surgery and he's a good guy that works with Batman?
I'd be surprised if they HAVEN'T done this already. At least for a little while.
>Catwoman gets new powers and turns into a half cat-like creature with vicious claws that eats humans.
I'd be surprised if this has never happened too.... although this runs pretty close to the Cheetah.
>The Ventriloquist gets a long gray sock puppet after Scar face is destroyed.
Socko. They did that during "Knightfall."
>Alfred gets the Gout
He came back from the dead as a cosmic powered, Batman hating baddie called "the Outsider." Does that count?
>Jason Todd goes back to the grave
Sooner or later. Then he'll die again, come back, die again....
Superhero heaven has a revolving door.
>Dick Grayson decides to put back on the original Robin suit on with hairy legs and all and become Robin again at age 25
More or less, it was called "Sidekicks."
>Batman reveals to the word on television, "that would just be crazy being a super hero but anyway I wanted to say...yeah I'm really Batman."
If it's good enough for Spiderman, it's good enough for Batman.
Don C.Comment
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^^^ It was called Brat Pack, Rick VietchYou must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace. -Ernie BanksComment
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They did do this. Batman left Harvey in charge of Gotham while he was off travelling with Dick and Tim during the "One Year Later" stunt post Infinite Crisis. Yeah, that made a lot of sense too.I'd be surprised if they HAVEN'T done this already. At least for a little while.
ChrisComment
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