Is Marvel Comics joining the reboot bandwagon?

[Cosmicman]

Sorry if this has been posted anywhere on this board and I missed it.

I've been picking up lots of Marvel titles because I dropped a lot of DC titles (due to some of the lack of interest in DC's reboot ideas. Ugh! They literally wiped off THE JSA OFF & rebooted them with crap!!!!) and I notice that Marvel Comics is launching this right here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_NOW!


I know that Nick Fury discovered his half black kid who happens to have the same eye cut out because he was tortured or something. So this new bald, black Nick Fury Jr. steps into Dad's place. Fine. I can deal with that because of the movie's popularity. (sorry if that sounds racist. I didn't know how to word that.)

Is this Marvel Comic's way of "rebooting" and trying to cash in on the new fans?

[madmarva]

Marvel's renumbering most of its series following the Avengers-X-Men event, starting this month. Instead of doing it all at one time like DC, the No 1s are rolling out a few at a time over a period of months with new creative teams. The status quo is changing for most of the books with the departure of creative teams, but continuity isn't being stopped and restarted like DC's. Marvel's said there will be costume changes with some characters and at least one hero will longer be the same person he/she was prior the renumbering, maybe Tony Stark's no longer Iron Man or something like that.
Basically, it's just renumbering and new creators combining for a more reader-friendly entry point to the books. I would have preferred DC take a similar approach, but it may have not made as big of a splash as its reboot ultimately did.

While I don't care for a lot of the changes DC made, its sales have been up and are still up a year later over where they were prior to the reboot. The fact that Marvel is shaking things up — even if not to the same extent — as a reaction further validates DC's new direction.

My biggest gripe is that Superman was retooled the most in the reboot and has gained very little traction in its new incarnation. DC also wiped out all Teen Titans history prior to the reboot to my understanding.

I hope no Marvel character or team suffers as much in its company's initiative.

[The Toyroom]

DC also wiped out all Teen Titans history prior to the reboot to my understanding.

Yeah all of that classic Wolfman/Perez stuff was totally scrapped....What a waste...

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I don't think Marvel is JOINING the bandwagon, I think they've always been on it. Superheroes have ALWAYS rebooted; usually with minimal fanfare.... an "ALL NEW!" splash on the cover or somesuch. Sometimes it'd done in-continuity: Marvel had done it like this for a while, stuff like Carol Danvers getting new powers all the time, Jean Grey coming back again and again, mixing up team rosters.... those are all reboots. DC had a tendency to go all out and rewrite the universe.... no doubt due to their success with this at the beginning of the Silver Age, but they also had the alternate worlds advantage; allowing for a clean start with whatever you wanted to do with the character. So.... Earth 1 Superman is single, Earth 2 Superman married Lois Lane....

Part of the problem comes from the passage of time, which doesn't happen at the same rate in the comics as it does in real life.... if it happens at all. So your hip, vibrant comic gets dated in a few years, and REALLY dated by the time the next generation of fans is poised to enter the mix. (Like how Reed Richards was part of the French underground in WW2.... and is now 100 years old....) You HAVE to reboot to stay relevant. Hell; it's right there in the title of Marvel's new project: "Marvel NOW!" In the old days they'd just do it, that'd be that and everyone would get on with things. The problem today is that they make a big deal over it WELL ahead of time, giving folks plenty of prep time for their gripes, allowing for all the new stuff to be plundered, analyzed and grown stale before the actual books come out, and creating expectation that can't POSSIBLY be lived up to. ("Yes, I'm sure THIS TIME the ENTIRE Batman universe will be COMPLETELY CHANGED!!!!") Good example? Look at the Marvel: NOW! titles. There's NOTHING new there, each is a jumbled version of a number of old titles; and each book a jumbeld version of old characters. Why would they think that a rehash of the old would in ANY WAY attract new readers? NOTHING there has any appeal to anyone not already seeped in the setting.

Let's play:

>All-New X-Men by Brian Bendis and Stuart Immonen features the return of the five original X-Men,

So.... it's all new 'cos it features the original team? Right out of the gate there's NOTHING new here.

>Bendis said, "Jean coming back now is unlike Jean coming back before.

Think about that. It's all new.... but features a really old, played out story but in a new way. SURE it does....

>she’s witnessed some things about her friends and loved ones that will make her feel wonderful, but also shock her to her very core and change all of her relationships... She’s going to witness what has happened to the X-Men and what she’ll do to try and change that, at a time when maybe her powers aren’t at their fullest yet"

....completely unlike the 80's Rachel Sommers bit, except it's exactly the same.

If you don't already care about the X-Men there's nothing in that concept to change that; and if you DO already care about 'em, well.... they've just recombobulated things for you. But hey; it worked in the 80's when they did it with the New Teen Titans.... it'll work again, right?

My point being that even THIS horror show isn't new. The hype is, and I think that's the real problem.

Don C.

[Cosmicman]

Good points. Sometimes when I see a "reboot" or a franchise start over to please new readers. It feels like the older readers (like me) are being told, "you are old. You shouldn't be reading this **** anyway."
So, if that's what Marvel is doing I guess we'll have to see what is going on. I have seen the new Uncanny Avengers and I dislike Captain America's look that resembles the movie version of him. There are some things that should be taken sacred. Leave my Captain America alone! lol



Uncannycaptainamerica.jpg

Oh yeah. The whole Nick Fury thing I mentioned above (see my original post that started this thread). It appears they have completely wiped out the history of the white old Nick Fury and just "restarted" with the black guy. As you see here where this man seen here refers to this new black Nick Fury as the only one. So, basically everything you have known about SHIELD is now been changed to fit the movie according to this new "Marvel NOW"



MarvelNowPointOne_TheGroup_003.jpg





MarvelNowPointOne_TheGroup_001.jpg

[thunderbolt]

Cap's new direction actually sounds like fun as does the Hulk's. Fantastic Four looks to be continuing what has been going on getting back to its exploration science team roots. Gotta say it all sounds way better than what DC did.

[bigphill]

reboots are whack in my opinion, there is something to be said about continuity. I was also against the entire "ultimate" line from MArvel, that in itself was their reboot.

[ctc]

>It feels like the older readers (like me) are being told, "you are old. You shouldn't be reading this **** anyway."

For the longest time that WAS the attitude. Life expectancy of a fan was 3 to 5 years; then it was assumed you'd grow up, move on and find other stuff to do. That's why books rebooted every few years; to better accomidate the new readers. You can see it if you read a long span of any superhero comic all at once; how the tone changes, new characters added, new twists to the background....

>there is something to be said about continuity

There is; but you've got to remember that continuity has only been a concern for the superheroes since the 80's, when it was discovered that there were significant numbers of long term fans. The problem they've had the last few years comes of that: once you decide to focus on a continuing story, anything that "happens" happens. It's harder to revamp when neccessary. (The original Crisis destroyed the entire universe just for this end.) The biggest problem it creates however, is that you eventually run out of logical permutations. Superhero books are perpetual; they come out every month, and because of that you can't REALLY have anything happen. It would muck with the formula too much. So you end up with this odd Merry-Go-Round of recycled plots.... which isn't a new thing.... but because you've hyped up the continuity idea people are paying attention now, and they have expectations. Expectations you can't meet. Characters can't get old, or really die, and because of the limited repitoire there are only so many different angles you can take on things before you start repeating. (Who here is surprised/excited that Jean Grey is coming back? Again.) The independents could get away with solid continuity 'cos they're the work of one (or two) people; not a rotating troupe of writers, not a marketing department, not a rotating staff of editors and such.... so they can plan for the future, set things up and accomidate major changes and developments within the book.

I think that's one of the reasons Marvel and DC haven't been able to gain new readers the last little while: the current crop of readers grew up with independents and/or the Japanese stuff, so they're used to an ACTUAL continuity.... a continuing story that's readily available beginning to end. Marvel and DC CAN'T do that, by nature of their production system.

Don C.

[Cosmicman]

Cap's new direction actually sounds like fun as does the Hulk's. Fantastic Four looks to be continuing what has been going on getting back to its exploration science team roots. Gotta say it all sounds way better than what DC did.

You're right. I do have two of the new books the Marvel NEW point one and the Uncanny Avengers. It's not that bad at all. I'm willing to give it a chance and glad it's not a reboot.
I know as I get older I'm one of the few older guys that is considering buying the digital formats otherwise I may have to rent space if I keep collecting as many titles as I want to.
I'm not going to live forever and so maybe it's time to go to eBay to lighten the load of a lot of dead end comic book series that filled up my shelves and eventually ended.

There is; but you've got to remember that continuity has only been a concern for the superheroes since the 80's, when it was discovered that there were significant numbers of long term fans. The problem they've had the last few years comes of that: once you decide to focus on a continuing story, anything that "happens" happens. It's harder to revamp when neccessary. (The original Crisis destroyed the entire universe just for this end.) The biggest problem it creates however, is that you eventually run out of logical permutations. Superhero books are perpetual; they come out every month, and because of that you can't REALLY have anything happen. It would muck with the formula too much. So you end up with this odd Merry-Go-Round of recycled plots.... which isn't a new thing.... but because you've hyped up the continuity idea people are paying attention now, and they have expectations. Expectations you can't meet. Characters can't get old, or really die, and because of the limited repitoire there are only so many different angles you can take on things before you start repeating. (Who here is surprised/excited that Jean Grey is coming back? Again.) The independents could get away with solid continuity 'cos they're the work of one (or two) people; not a rotating troupe of writers, not a marketing department, not a rotating staff of editors and such.... so they can plan for the future, set things up and accomidate major changes and developments within the book.

I think that's one of the reasons Marvel and DC haven't been able to gain new readers the last little while: the current crop of readers grew up with independents and/or the Japanese stuff, so they're used to an ACTUAL continuity.... a continuing story that's readily available beginning to end. Marvel and DC CAN'T do that, by nature of their production system.

Don C.

That's the reason DC & Marvel have went digital. It works for a lot of the younger fans. Remember everything is tied with computers and the Internet now. Comic books have found away into the Internet world....will it sell? Maybe and maybe not. Honestly, in my opinion it just opens up more chances of comic book companies getting ripped off with the illegal trading world. They have all the digital formats on U torrents.
Yeah, I thought about downloading them that way but no. I'd rather have a book in my hand I guess but then we are back to talking about the space issue. So I need to sell the old to replace the new. Anyone like old comic books of Fantastic Four? Classic Defenders? Avengers? Captain America?

[Operation:Mego]

Anyone like old comic books of Fantastic Four? Classic Defenders? Avengers? Captain America?

Yes, I do, I do!!!

[Cosmicman]

Yes, I do, I do!!!

Well, you and I can talk about this somewhere else. I need to sell a **** load to make room for the new.

[Bruce Banner]

It was inevitable, I suppose.

Bronze Age reprints and back issues are my Marvel and DC.


......

[ctc]

>I'm willing to give it a chance and glad it's not a reboot.

I think if you want to be a superhero comic fan these days you've REALLY got to lighten up. They're still struggling with newer publishing and story techniques, they're mired in the old, and they haven't shed the gimmicks of the 90's. So you've got to cut them some slack. I think there's a tendency for the FANS to be mired in the old too, and an unwillingness to accept ANY changes. Which is fine; 'cos even there the "good stuff;" whichever era you ascribe that title to, is readily available. (IF you can cut the publishers some slack and man up against digital, or B&W prints....)

>That's the reason DC & Marvel have went digital. It works for a lot of the younger fans.

AND it's a LOT cheaper. I don't think they've quite got the hang of that one, either.

Don C.

[thunderbolt]

Its not any cheaper for the consumer as the big two are afraid to hurt the LCS. Sure you can wait a month or two and get it a dollar off, but to me downloads should start out at a lower price point.

[ctc]

>the big two are afraid to hurt the LCS

I could see that; but not because of the books, rather because the comic shop is still the primary source for collectibles. I think they'd be perfectly happy to distribute the books themselves, LCS be damned. (Like the whole distributor debacle of the 90's....)

>downloads should start out at a lower price point

They should start out at a MUCH lower price, considering how much cheaper they are to produce, and how much higher the margin is for the company. Plus, if you make them cheap enough folks will be willing to try stuff that's ACTUALLY different. (Maybe THEN we'd finally get a proper return for Super-Hip! Dude's due for a comeback.) That's the key; the Big Two-ish seem to be searching for the next Big Thing, but they're doing it so weakly by rehash after rehash that there's almost no chance of them finding it. Digital is also great 'cos then potential new fans don't have to brave the undying image of the comic shop as home for misanthropes and unbathed manchildren. (Which perpetuates even amongst comic and nerd-friendly avenues.)

Don C.