"Is Canada ready for its own screen superhero?"

[Brazoo]

Weinsteins are the perfect example of what happens... You build something up like Mirimax and then sell it out a major company like Disney, who pretty much dismantle it. The story of what happened up here in the past decade is not dissimilar.

Why does Canadian film have to be considered small time in the first place amongst Canadians? you don't think it's odd to settle on a position of inferiority in what essentially is a huge expensive medium and industry? Why not shoot for the big screen distribution as film is ideally intended and optimally viewed, rather than settle for secondary markets like cable and downloads? It's one thing if it struggles as you suggest in the US marketplace amongst indie fare, but why handicap it here where it should be afforded the advantages of the home field?

What I'm arguing is that I think a Canadian 5 million dollar budget movie has the same disadvantage as an American 5 million dollar budget movie. In my mind I'm just comparing apples to apples.

I don't think there's a reason why Canadian production companies can't make $150 mil. movies - but I think producers have to start with smaller budgets and build up to that, because it doesn't seem like the currently established producers have the ambition or the talent to get to that level.

You say Canadian movies are restricted by uneven distribution - but it still seems to me that most 10 million dollar and under movies don't get wide distribution - and the only ones that do stand out quality-wise or marketing-wise.

that is the problem of an uneven playing field. Any film from a Hollywood studio gets screens in this country and a marketing push, no matter how good or bad, but our homegrown product has to earn it and prove it's merits via the american studios and their distribution system, just like their indies? That is really backwards to throw larger hurdles at our own stuff in favour of what is essentially foreign product, and then subject it to an America filter of approval on top of that before it's allowed more screens. the ladder they climb should be here, not down there. Otherwise our talent goes elsewhere as we see time and again... Entertainment industry brain drain

The huge hope of the original Alliance/Atlantis merger was that they would become a major Power player... Commercial production capability, coupled with the distribution network they built. The fallout of their sellout and dismantling was truly a huge blow.

They made "Foolproof", right? Because of that - as an outsider - I question that they knew anything about what they were doing.

There are not many popular under 10 million dollar action movies - there are SOME, but they have to pack a real wallop. They NEED to have incredible stunts or have an insanely great script.

This was a case where - in my perceptions as an outsider - a bunch of clueless decisions were made to try and cash in on a popular genre without understanding their market or how the genre works.

The marketing? Here's the poster they made:



HOW could a professional film producer sign off on this poster? It's blatantly wrong for so many reasons it boggles my mind. The stars look like they're high. Not high up on a building, like how it's intended to look - but high as in on drugs. They're both attractive people - how hard is it to understand that attractive people should look attractive on the poster selling your movie? It's not sexy - it's not exciting. Reduced and printed in black and white in the newspaper - which is how most people saw it - it looked like two people standing and one of them was reaching up to get something on a shelf. Because it's muddy - there's no contrast and the straps they're hanging on don't read. EVEN if the straps read in the image there's no tension because there's nothing to show us the physical danger they're suppose to be experiencing. It costs the same amount of money to design a great movie poster as a horrible movie poster - so budget isn't the problem here. It's all on the dumb dumbs who thought they could market a successful movie this way.

This movie also cost Canadians 4.4 million - and the backers probably got a hefty tax return for their failure - so my Canadian pride actually works the opposite way when I see things like this happen.

The thing that really blows my mind is the dude who wrote and directed this dreck was somehow able to write and direct another (relatively) big budget movie. Also a huge flop.

Stepping back and looking at how this movie failed I don't see a picture of Canadians rejecting "Foolproof" because of a perception that it was Canadian and therefore inferior - it was inferior and the producers didn't make it hard for Canadians to figure that out quickly.

[samurainoir]

Dude! We're back to "good/bad/deserving" once again. I already provided the list of the "good" ones to refute the "Canadian Films Suck" thesis, mismarketing aside. C'mon, it's easy to tear apart a bad film, but how do you go about the nuts and bolts building up a good one when this is what we've been doing all along, with the added hurdle that theatrical is now off the table?

I don't think there's a reason why Canadian production companies can't make $150 mil. movies - but I think producers have to start with smaller budgets and build up to that, because it doesn't seem like the currently established producers have the ambition or the talent to get to that level.

Really truly honestly not true. I know producers with heaps of ambition... and of course "talent" is again so subjective and arbitrary (we can trot out the tomato metre again I guess). Here is why you can't compare a video game start-up to the Canadian Film Industry (ignoring the fact that brick and mortar venues for mass audience exhibition are not a factor in experiencing Video Games now that arcades are long since gone the way of the Dodo)... it's because it is already an established and decades mature industry with lots of talent who are already used to making $150 million dollar movies... it's just that they are generally US or co-productions shot in Canada. Canadian filmmaker Ivan Reitman made a huge film like Ghostbusters after making Meatballs in Canada, but in order to do GB, he had to go to Hollywood rather than stay home here. There are many many many more stories similar to this one spread across many talented people over decades.

And what you propose... starting with smaller budgets and build up from that isn't anything new within the context that this is what has already been happening for decades. Except there is nothing to build to anymore.

I mean here is once again the expanded list of "Good" films that according to Audiences and Critics are well above average and deserving of a wider audience, which they did not get theatrically and will not get when they follow up. People with decades of filmmaking under their belts worked hard on these films, putting in long hours. Where did they build to? Cable, DVD and Download? I accept that this is a new way of doing business, but I'm also ridiculous purist when it comes the the Big Screen, and I know for a fact that is how many filmmakers feel as well about how their work is ideally experienced.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/away_from_her/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/barneys-version/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/monsieur_lazhar_2011/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ginger_snaps/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ging...s_2_unleashed/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/pontypool/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/wilby_wonderful/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1217843-know_your_mushrooms/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/adoration/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/take_this_waltz/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1156587-clean/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10005178-saint_ralph/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/defendor/

Sarah Polley gets the Oscar nod, and still gets twenty screens on her follow up? The producers of Saint Ralph got a few screens and then built to one screen for Defendor? This is established talent that can't grow without stepping outside of Canada. Cronenberg's been here for four decades and he now has to do co-productions. Natali does his small budget Cube and builds to co-productions like Splice. An established producer like Lantos who has made Canadian films for decades now needs to do co-productions. Not that co-productions are a bad thing, but when it's the only thing? There are certainly a great many compromises involved to an already compromised process.

What has happened is that these well established talented folks have had their domestic distribution taken away. They had it once, now it's no longer there, and there is nothing to build to without stepping outside of Canada. In your Mirimax model, they need to go hat in hand to the United States or Europe or Asia? Where they can get a theatrical there (for Pontypool or Cube) but a handful of screens on their home turf? The pipeline should not be export so that we can import it back once the rest of the world approves. No other domestic film industry works this way. Something is broken and it's not the talent.

You can point to the marketing as fail, but here is what you need to know... marketing is not the realm of the producer. It's distribution that oversees marketing.

[Brazoo]

Dude! We're back to "good/bad/deserving" once again. I already provided the list of the "good" ones to refute the "Canadian Films Suck" thesis, mismarketing aside. C'mon, it's easy to tear apart a bad film, but how do you go about the nuts and bolts building up a good one when this is what we've been doing all along, with the added hurdle that theatrical is now off the table?

I mentioned "Foolproof" because you brought up Alliance/Atlantis. I remember the hype around that merger - but then I remember horribly bad movies like "Foolproof" coming out and the whole thing seemed to unravel. I'm the first to admit my knowledge of what happened isn't based on anything but my outside perception.

Really truly honestly not true. I know producers with heaps of ambition...and of course "talent" is again so subjective and arbitrary (we can trot out the tomato metre again I guess). Here is why you can't compare a video game start-up to the Canadian Film Industry (ignoring the fact that brick and mortar venues for mass audience exhibition are not a factor in experiencing Video Games now that arcades are long since gone the way of the Dodo)... it's because it is already an established and decades mature industry with lots of talent who are already used to making $150 million dollar movies... it's just that they are generally US or co-productions shot in Canada. Canadian filmmaker Ivan Reitman made a huge film like Ghostbusters after making Meatballs in Canada, but in order to do GB, he had to go to Hollywood rather than stay home here. There are many many many more stories similar to this one spread across many talented people over decades.

And what you propose... starting with smaller budgets and build up from that isn't anything new within the context that this is what has already been happening for decades. Except there is nothing to build to anymore.

I mean here is once again the expanded list of "Good" films that according to Audiences and Critics are well above average and deserving of a wider audience, which they did not get theatrically and will not get when they follow up. People with decades of filmmaking under their belts worked hard on these films, putting in long hours. Where did they build to? Cable, DVD and Download? I accept that this is a new way of doing business, but I'm also ridiculous purist when it comes the the Big Screen, and I know for a fact that is how many filmmakers feel as well about how their work is ideally experienced.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/away_from_her/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/barneys-version/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/monsieur_lazhar_2011/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ginger_snaps/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ging...s_2_unleashed/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/pontypool/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/wilby_wonderful/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1217843-know_your_mushrooms/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/adoration/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/take_this_waltz/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1156587-clean/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10005178-saint_ralph/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/defendor/

In this case I don't think I'm referring to talent in an arbitrary subjective way, it's measurable - I'm talking about individuals who are capable of producing consistent critical and commercial successes.

I'm not talking about the output of Canada as a whole - I'm talking about individual producers or production companies. I honestly don't know which Canadian companies or producers are consistently growing with critical and commercial successes. Maybe Canada has a Bob and Harvey or a Ted Hope and I just don't know them. From what I know I guess Lantos is maybe the closest - but as you say he's very established, not growing and he seems comfortable where he is. That's just speculation, or course.

I still think there's a need for new young companies to start up and focus on brand building to open new possibilities.

It seems just as arbitrary to me to discuss quality as it does to determine that a movie was less successful that it should have been. For example, I liked "Defendor" and "Pontypool", but we have different opinions about them - I'm sorry to say that I would have been surprised if they found wider audiences.

(As an aside, I thought that "Pontypool" was a cult hit and I thought they were even thinking about expanding it into a trilogy.)

Sarah Polley gets the Oscar nod, and still gets twenty screens on her follow up? The producers of Saint Ralph got a few screens and then built to one screen for Defendor? This is established talent that can't grow without stepping outside of Canada.

Is that really surprising though? It was a best adapted screenplay nomination. Cool, yes - but I don't know many movies that push nominated screenwriters for hype.

Cronenberg's been here for four decades and he now has to do co-productions. Natali does his small budget Cube and builds to co-productions like Splice. An established producer like Lantos who has made Canadian films for decades now needs to do co-productions. Not that co-productions are a bad thing, but when it's the only thing? There are certainly a great many compromises involved to an already compromised process.

What has happened is that these well established talented folks have had their domestic distribution taken away. They had it once, now it's no longer there, and there is nothing to build to without stepping outside of Canada. In your Mirimax model, they need to go hat in hand to the United States or Europe or Asia? Where they can get a theatrical there (for Pontypool or Cube) but a handful of screens on their home turf? The pipeline should not be export so that we can import it back once the rest of the world approves. No other domestic film industry works this way. Something is broken and it's not the talent.

You can point to the marketing as fail, but here is what you need to know... marketing is not the realm of the producer. It's distribution that oversees marketing.

Alliance/Atlantis would have controlled the marketing for "Foolproof" either way though, right?

What you're saying is interesting and I admit I don't think about that aspect a lot or know much about how co-productions effect things. I don't think of Cronenberg's movies as being compromised - in fact I assumed he had an easier time doing what he wanted here than in the US.




P.S. - Tomorrow is good, but clear your PMs!

[samurainoir]

^^^
cool, how about I come pick you and Cleo up around lunch time? I'll call you closer to noon.

BTW, I just found out tonight that my new studio space is very likely going to be right on your front doorstep!!!

[Brazoo]

^^^
cool, how about I come pick you and Cleo up around lunch time? I'll call you closer to noon.

Awesome - Maybe we can grab some food at a dog friendly patio around here? I'm great with the place at the thing though too.

BTW, I just found out tonight that my new studio space is very likely going to be right on your front doorstep!!!

Sweet!