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Its something to see how unimaginative and stale comics have gotten lately. Hate to sound like an old fart, but man the old stuff was better.
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You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace. -Ernie Banks -
I agree, nothing is ground-breaking anymore....it's all just re-hash/re-tread/re-boot.Think OUTSIDE the Box! For the BEST in Repro & Custom Packaging!Comment
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^^^
at Marvel and DC.
Three of my favourite titles right now are Walking Dead, Chew and Rachel Rising. All breaking fairly new ground in their own way. Zombies are ubiquitous, but NOBODY has gone long form with characters in the genre like this (with the exception of Deadworld, which couldn't sustain itself in terms of character driven drama like WD Does).
And I dare you to find another investigative detective series that solves crime by psychic ingestion of the victims' remains!
Last edited by samurainoir; Jun 22, '12, 2:12 PM.Comment
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>at Marvel and DC.
....but.... that's the sum total of comics, isn't it?
>it's all just re-hash/re-tread/re-boot.
That's a double edged sword.... To produce stuff that's new and inventive you'd need an audience receptive to such things.... and the diehard old school fans are still WAY stuck in their 80's superheroes. Too many people want stuff that's new and exciting, yet exactly like the books from back in the day. So you get what DC and Marvel have been pushing for over a decade; things that sort of look new, but are (often literally) the same old, dressed a bit differently. Look at the reaction to word of a Metal Men movie; overwhelmingly "why them, and not Wonder Woman or the Flash?" Folks WANT the same. They want the first tier characters, not the C-listers.... which means an endless rehash of the usual suspects. They want what they're comfortable with, and that environemnt isn't condusive to ground-breaking.
Case in point: the last decade has ben ASTOUNDINGLY good overall for comics in terms of novelty, new audiences and diversity.... but a lot of the old guard missed it because it didn't come from the Big Two and a Half; it came from Europe, and Japan, and *gasp* online. Kids started reading comics again, even girls started reading them. Hell; even Archie broke more ground.... and became more pertinent.... than the old giants.
Don C.Comment
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Dug out some of the preview issues and enjoying the stroll down memory lane. 1984 issue was the first one I read wY back in the day, found it in a used bookstore and read it to death. Forgot that there were a lot of joke entries.
In the 1984 issue, John Byrne talks about a new character he introduced in Alpha Flight called Wild Child, that would have Byrne's intended origin of Wolverine. Don't think that story ever materialized. He also talks about the "new" Doctor Doom in the fantastic four who would operate without the money or support of Latveria.
The entry for Void Indigo talks about how it originated from a proposal for an unnamed company character... Which we now know was Hawkman.
In Spiderman they discuss the new costume that he will be receiving in secret wars... The original rumor apparently was that tey would change the costume to red and black... I seem to recall some early variations on the black outfit with red parts instead of white.
In the winter 1985 issue, there was a proposed "Alan Moore comic" from Fantographics about the comics industry that might have been called Dodgem Logic (the name of his recent magazine).
The entry for The Dark Knight discusses the expansion of that series from three issues to four with the inclusion of Superman.
Byrne talked about his return to Monster island plans for the FF 25th anniversary issue, which he ended up not doing... Although IIRC they loosely still followed the plot? In the Superman entry they talk about the issues before Byrne takes over as "shrouded in mystery"... We now know Moore and Swan's whatever happened to the man of tomorrow. Byrne said he intended to stay on Superman for 100 issues... Turned out to be about two years I think?
The Flash by Len Wein and Marv Wolfman. Mackenzie Ryan is a technician at STAR Labs, who is not a speedster, but an energy manipulator. He is a single parent with a daughter.
Crisis on Captive Earth a 12 issue maxi series by Paul Levitz, Len Wein and Jerry Ordway. Catwoman was going to have a major role in this series.Last edited by samurainoir; Jun 26, '12, 10:05 AM.Comment
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The only plot from Byrne's FF that they followed was the Central City one that he started and I don't really think he left any outlines for whoever had to pick up the pieces as it didn't seem all that Byrne like. I dropped the book as soon as I realized it wasn't just a fill in issue.You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace. -Ernie BanksComment
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"Crisis on Captive Earth" was the working title that eventually became "Crisis of the Soul" which was changed further until it became "Legends"...without Levitz, Ordway and Wein.Think OUTSIDE the Box! For the BEST in Repro & Custom Packaging!Comment
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More from the Winter 1985 Preview special...
Last Days of the Justice Society was originally supposed to be a Graphic Novel. In the entries for Infinity Inc and All Star Squadron, you can hear Roy Thomas flailing around to try and negotiate a viable direction for the series that are suddenly waylaid by the ending of Crisis.
Fascinating how well it all eventually worked out post-Crisis despite all the making it up as they went along approach. Essentially the Darwinism approach to comics... I'd say it's not unlike what is going on with the new DC 52 today. Star creators like John Byrne and Marv Wolfman given free reign, and all the rest of them having to work around the ever shifting sands of a new continuity.... particularly the old guard like Roy Thomas. We also forget how much fan anger there was back then about these changes. Mostly because those fans are too old to use the internet or deceased by now I'd imagine, but they were vocal in the fan press! There isn't an entry for Wonder Woman, other than the Legend of Wonder Woman series by Kurt Busiek and Trina Robbins.
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Meanwhile over at Marvel, there was an Invisible Woman miniseries written by Byrne that never happened... Sue's powers begin to turn her intangible as well after Reed accidentally exposes her to some radiation. She slips into another dimension, meets a handsome warrior in a sword and sorcery setting and grows old.
remember that time Thor was turned into a Frog?
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Last edited by samurainoir; Jun 26, '12, 1:13 PM.Comment
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Roy Thomas talks about the Last Days one-shot in one of the All-Star Companion books. He was promised a number of things that didn't come to pass via Crisis. One, that Earth Two would still exist. And after that was thrown out, that the Earth Two of the past would still exist, allowing him to keep Superman, Batman, etc in All-Star Squadron. After they nixed that, he offered to write the Last Days GN to give the JSA a proper send-off, as he felt DC was going to get rid of them anyway. After the project was done, DC renigged on the GN and published it as just a one-shot standard comic.
You get the impression from the All-Star Companion books and various issues of Alter-Ego, that Thomas was THE big get at DC, having came over from Marvel in 1981. By 1985-86, he was "the Earth-Two guy", and with no Earth-Two...
ChrisComment
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In fact, I think after "COIE" Thomas was named as the "Earth-2 Editor" but obviously that was a title that proved worthless...Think OUTSIDE the Box! For the BEST in Repro & Custom Packaging!Comment
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^I think it was slightly before COIE, but yeah, it did him little good, and he got no extra pay for it.
Secret Origins was also taken from his hands shortly after Crisis as well.
ChrisComment
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The Winter '85 Preview (1986 actually) covers the first few issues of "Secret Origins". They mention up to #7 but the line-up is slightly off from what was actually published. And a Jericho issue by Marv Wolfman was scheduled for #6 but that never materialized.Think OUTSIDE the Box! For the BEST in Repro & Custom Packaging!Comment
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According to Thomas, Secret Origins was intended to run like it's original 5 or so issues and alternate between modern hero issues (like Blue Beetle and Firestorm) and Golden Age heroes written and edited by Thomas (Superman, Crimson Avenger, etc). The change to a double sized, half modern/half Golden approach was news to Thomas. Eventually they pushed him out of the book entirely. He had tons of unpublished origins drawn and in some cases inked, including The Ray and Firebrand penciled by Gil Kane, Hawkgirl and Sandy the Golden Boy, all written by Thomas.Comment
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From the summer 1985 preview issue, History of the DC Universe was initially going to be the final two issues of Crisis on Infinite Earths in order to establish the new status quo. However the story kept expanding as the success of Crisis suddenly gave it buy-in across the line as editorial and creators added in their wishlists for things spinning out of Crisis.
Last edited by samurainoir; Jun 26, '12, 1:21 PM.Comment
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