Chris Roberson Interview about Creator Ethics

[samurainoir]

I have to admit that I have trouble wrapping my head around it because I am generally a creator driven fan, I can enter and exit a book based on whomever is writing or drawing at any given time. However it kind of clicked for me when someone pointed out that most comics fans are actually more like fans of team sports. They generally have their favourite comic books/characters, and follow that book/character rain or shine, that is why it's such a big deal when they declare that they are no longer buying that book after x amount of years or consecutive issues across however many creative teams. A Leafs fan is a Leafs fan, so the idea that they go hang out at Habs games instead doesn't make any sense to them... Or they are Vince Carter fans when he's on the raptors, but it's not like they would still watch all his games when he moved teams/ruined the raptors.

[Brazoo]

I think that's 100% correct. It's dawned on me before that most fans of almost everything are like sports fans in a lot of different ways. And there's a lot of tribal consciousness mixed in there that doesn't make total linear sense to me - like you mentioned - but I've never liked sports, so maybe I just don't get it.

For example, (and I'm not criticizing) - but just this morning there's a thread on here of folks cheering for how much foreign box office The Avengers is earning. There's a level of shared identity (?) in the success of movies people want to like that I just don't get.

I understand wanting a movie I enjoyed watching to do well financially - but there's this extra level of competitiveness (IMDb highlights this) where the ranking of movie popularity IS a sport in itself. I would never care if a blockbuster movie I liked was number 1 or number 8 - I have nothing vested.

Sometimes I think ranking "best of lists" and seeing lists are fun - but I don't get when people take these things personally or too seriously.

I've never really gotten it though. A bunch of guys from other places on a team owned by a huge corporation and branded with the name of the city I live in might have won - "we" didn't win, and I certainly didn't. So I see people connect themselves to that brand, or that corporation and I just don't get the same thing on the level they do. To me, artists make comics.

[Brazoo]

>

>companies use foresight, they make investments and take risks

Well.... not when it comes to entertainment. Too much money involved. That's why you see the same ideas, names, stories over and over on tv and at the box office. It makes more sense to play it safe, and the corproate culture has evolved to ensure it stays that way.

Not that it HAS to; every so often someone pushes something genuinely new that hits.... but more often than not taking a chance = fail.

>the fans who rally against the artists. I don't get that AT ALL. They perpetuate these issues to some degree - and it makes no sense.

It does, if you look at it from another perspective. The fans want more, more of whatever it is they want. Uppity artists and writers get in the way of that.

....and no, it doesn't make a LOT of sense; but it's another symptom of that weird shift I noticed.

Don C.

I've been thinking about this - there are a lot of variables to what we're discussing this. "Risk" is such a relative idea - like "value", but I think there are periods where industries are forced to be more aggressive about finding the next new thing - and then there are periods where industries concentrate on selling the old thing in new ways. I still think even in entertainment that different companies have different approaches and philosophies.

Like, in the 60s the record industry was fixated on "new" - a lot of artists got screwed used and dumped, but there were also companies that valued talent differently. They allowed talented people to nurture, seeing talent as a longer term investment. So I still don't think it's all one way, or all the other.

I'd say TV right now is an example of this too. I'd argue that we might currently have the all-time worst pre-fab TV and the all-time most original and best TV - simultaneously.

[samurainoir]

For example, (and I'm not criticizing) - but just this morning there's a thread on here of folks cheering for how much foreign box office The Avengers is earning. There's a level of shared identity (?) in the success of movies people want to like that I just don't get.
.

I think it goes back to the Marvel/DC comics "rivalry" that Stan Lee constructed when Marvel was the "underdog" chasing DC's sales, and it kind of continues to this day. You have folks that are primarily DC fans or Marvel fans, and cheer or boo their respective teams (depending on how they are doing, just like sports fans) and that extends to the box office.... Green Lantern Vs Captain America/Thor/x-men.

Although in my mind they were kind of the same going back to Megos occupying the same play universe, particularly when I had giant tabloid digests of Superman hanging out with Spiderman or Hulk Vs Batman. I guess I'm the band wagon jumper that most hardcore season ticket holders look down on.

[ctc]

>I think there are periods where industries are forced to be more aggressive about finding the next new thing - and then there are periods where industries concentrate on selling the old thing in new ways. I still think even in entertainment that different companies have different approaches and philosophies.

I think you're right, but the reason has to do with practicality. You've got entertainment companies of differing sizes, each trying to hold and/or expand their market. The big companies like to hold; it's safer, nobody risks their position, etc. The smaller companies have to experiment 'cos they don't have that much to hold on to. They're also in a better position to experiment, because of their compact size ideas can disseminate faster and they have less overhead.

Eventually someone does SOMETHING that hits; a newish idea gets theough the layers of big corp beaurocracy (Star Wars) or a smaller company has a hit. (Ninja Turtles.) When THAT happens, a newish template comes about, and everybody shifts to the new "right" way of doing things. That continues until someone else has a hit, then it shifts again.

Comics are a good example of this. Prior to the 90's, you had the "mainstream" stuff, and the "independents," and the "undergrounds;" and they all handled different types of story. They'd borrow from each other, but you could easily tell what vein a book ran in. TMNT takes off, Marvel gives us Rocket Raccoon. Dark gritty superheroes the thing at DC, we get Faust. Post-Image, and EVERYBODY started doing hypervacillated superheroes. And then everything collapsed, 'cos NOBODY was bringing anything new to the party. Except the Japanese guys....

>I'd argue that we might currently have the all-time worst pre-fab TV and the all-time most original and best TV - simultaneously.

I think you can say that of any era though. There's very seldom one idea unifrmilly spread across any given medium, although there's a tendency (owing back to them sublimated tribal rivalries that push fandom) to focus only on the "big" thing. People only remember the hits, and then only remember the hits they want to.

>and cheer or boo their respective teams (depending on how they are doing, just like sports fans)

I think it's the same idea as was discussed WAY back during a music discussion here: people NEED a "winner," even if the situation doesn't call for one. It's not enough that YOU like something, it requires the external validation of significant proportions of the rest of society liking it too.

Don C.

[johnnystorm]

Personally, I don't believe that what DC is currently doing is really anything new. Under DiDio's reign, they have just recycled idea after idea, plotline after plotline, from the 1990s. The New 52 is really just a rehash of Zero Hour, right down to new costumes, reset age clocks, new titles etc. And now "#0" issues being announced.

Remember Power Girl in headband & boots? Electric Superman costume? Batman gone replaced by Nightwing? The JSA written out of continuity? A "new" JLA? Rebooted LSH? Younger Flash with revamped speed powers? New Guardians & the Millenium crisis? GL Corps replaced by Manhunters? Revised Wonder Woman with emphasis on the olympian gods? Hawk & Dove, Resurrection Man, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Blackhawk, Suicide Squad, Deathstroke, Team Titans all get their own series? Revised look at Ray Palmer the Atom? All-New Hawkman with armor & weapons? Stormwatch, WildCats, Grifter, Voodoo? It goes on....
DiDio has NO new ideas, neither does Johns or Lee. Oh, sure Johns is a great writer & Lee is a fantastic artist, but they recycle the DC heyday of speculator buying, issuing new #1s & variant covers like they're counterfieting twenties in the basement. Eventually the speculators will go away again, and we will see the comic bust again, only this time I suspect there will be no coming back from it.

Marvel isn't immune to this either, with event driven stuff like Avengers vs. X-Men. I suspect this event though (A vs X) may be more driven by setting up movie franchises- think how big THAT particular film would be!

As for the comment on TV, I think the most influential period for TV was late 1960s to about 1979. When you think about how many TV shows appeared in that time period that are fondly remembered, how many iconic characters there were, how many oddball premise were tried...
Today it's reality TV to the extreme, and if one thing seems good, EVERY channel has a version.
I'm sick of Auction Wars, Hoarder Trauma, Junkyard Pickers, Deadly Fishermen, Alaskan Mall Cops, Idiot Resteraunt Owners, Insane Dancing Non-Celebrities, Singing Nuns, 600 lb slobs, Overly Fertile Trailer Trash, Pawnshop Punks, etc etc. retreaded over & over. Ok, a little of it's entertaining, a lot of it's staged, but mostly it's recycled from one to another station. How many times can A&E (which once stood for ART & ENTERTAINMENT) show a "marathon" of the same 6 episodes of Storage Wars? Geez, at least do some new ones, or is it THAT hard to plant gold bullion in a safe under trash bags of clothes?
Just saying, but I'd like to see the episode where Frank & Mike get arrested for trespassing or a hillbilly farmer blasts the logo off their van with a shotgun. Now that would be good reality TV!

[johnnystorm]

Sorry, wow, went off the topic rails bigtime. Apologies for the rant.

[kingdom warrior]

Personally, I don't believe that what DC is currently doing is really anything new. Under DiDio's reign, they have just recycled idea after idea, plotline after plotline, from the 1990s. The New 52 is really just a rehash of Zero Hour, right down to new costumes, reset age clocks, new titles etc. And now "#0" issues being announced.

Remember Power Girl in headband & boots? Electric Superman costume? Batman gone replaced by Nightwing? The JSA written out of continuity? A "new" JLA? Rebooted LSH? Younger Flash with revamped speed powers? New Guardians & the Millenium crisis? GL Corps replaced by Manhunters? Revised Wonder Woman with emphasis on the olympian gods? Hawk & Dove, Resurrection Man, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Blackhawk, Suicide Squad, Deathstroke, Team Titans all get their own series? Revised look at Ray Palmer the Atom? All-New Hawkman with armor & weapons? Stormwatch, WildCats, Grifter, Voodoo? It goes on....
DiDio has NO new ideas, neither does Johns or Lee. Oh, sure Johns is a great writer & Lee is a fantastic artist, but they recycle the DC heyday of speculator buying, issuing new #1s & variant covers like they're counterfieting twenties in the basement. Eventually the speculators will go away again, and we will see the comic bust again, only this time I suspect there will be no coming back from it.

Marvel isn't immune to this either, with event driven stuff like Avengers vs. X-Men. I suspect this event though (A vs X) may be more driven by setting up movie franchises- think how big THAT particular film would be!

As for the comment on TV, I think the most influential period for TV was late 1960s to about 1979. When you think about how many TV shows appeared in that time period that are fondly remembered, how many iconic characters there were, how many oddball premise were tried...
Today it's reality TV to the extreme, and if one thing seems good, EVERY channel has a version.
I'm sick of Auction Wars, Hoarder Trauma, Junkyard Pickers, Deadly Fishermen, Alaskan Mall Cops, Idiot Resteraunt Owners, Insane Dancing Non-Celebrities, Singing Nuns, 600 lb slobs, Overly Fertile Trailer Trash, Pawnshop Punks, etc etc. retreaded over & over. Ok, a little of it's entertaining, a lot of it's staged, but mostly it's recycled from one to another station. How many times can A&E (which once stood for ART & ENTERTAINMENT) show a "marathon" of the same 6 episodes of Storage Wars? Geez, at least do some new ones, or is it THAT hard to plant gold bullion in a safe under trash bags of clothes?
Just saying, but I'd like to see the episode where Frank & Mike get arrested for trespassing or a hillbilly farmer blasts the logo off their van with a shotgun. Now that would be good reality TV!

It's ok man....venting is good! and I agree!

[Brazoo]

Sorry, wow, went off the topic rails bigtime. Apologies for the rant.

How DARE you!!

You haven't interrupted man, you just joined the party!



Apart from the movies coming out, I'm honestly only vaguely up to date with what's going on with DC/Marvel from reading what you guys post - but from a slightly outside perspective it seems both companies are in a heavy "resell old stuff in new ways" mode right now - so I think you're probably dead on.

>I think there are periods where industries are forced to be more aggressive about finding the next new thing - and then there are periods where industries concentrate on selling the old thing in new ways. I still think even in entertainment that different companies have different approaches and philosophies.

I think you're right, but the reason has to do with practicality. You've got entertainment companies of differing sizes, each trying to hold and/or expand their market. The big companies like to hold; it's safer, nobody risks their position, etc. The smaller companies have to experiment 'cos they don't have that much to hold on to. They're also in a better position to experiment, because of their compact size ideas can disseminate faster and they have less overhead.

Eventually someone does SOMETHING that hits; a newish idea gets theough the layers of big corp beaurocracy (Star Wars) or a smaller company has a hit. (Ninja Turtles.) When THAT happens, a newish template comes about, and everybody shifts to the new "right" way of doing things. That continues until someone else has a hit, then it shifts again.

Comics are a good example of this. Prior to the 90's, you had the "mainstream" stuff, and the "independents," and the "undergrounds;" and they all handled different types of story. They'd borrow from each other, but you could easily tell what vein a book ran in. TMNT takes off, Marvel gives us Rocket Raccoon. Dark gritty superheroes the thing at DC, we get Faust. Post-Image, and EVERYBODY started doing hypervacillated superheroes. And then everything collapsed, 'cos NOBODY was bringing anything new to the party. Except the Japanese guys....

Sure - I agree. Those examples all work. 70s Hollywood was one that came to mind too - Hollywood went into "find the next big thing" mode and couldn't depend on formulas that use to work --- for a while.

>I'd argue that we might currently have the all-time worst pre-fab TV and the all-time most original and best TV - simultaneously.

I think you can say that of any era though. There's very seldom one idea unifrmilly spread across any given medium, although there's a tendency (owing back to them sublimated tribal rivalries that push fandom) to focus only on the "big" thing. People only remember the hits, and then only remember the hits they want to.

Sorry, I didn't make it clear, but I'm really speaking here about my own personal tastes. To me personally TV is full of all-time creatively vapid cookie-cutter lows and also reaching the heights of originality and quality. As far as my personal measures of these things go - I'd argue that.

[samurainoir]

Just to bring the topic back around to Chris Roberson, I really do enjoy his Cinderella Fables Minis, and was looking forward to the third series in Fairest. He's apparently turned in the scripts, I'm assuming at least some of the art was started. It's a shame that it will never see the light of day. Ditto the rest of izombie.

CINDERELLA: FABLES ARE FOREVER TPB | eBay
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[johnnystorm]

I-Zombie is a great book, as were those Cinderella Fables. I think Roberson is a great writer, I'm sure he will do alright for himself elsewhere. It will be a shame not to see the 3rd Cindy spy tale.