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**Random Axe** · Mar 23, '12, 2:11 PM

It's almost as if DC is trying to fail it's faithful readership of the last 40 years. Change is inevitable, gradual change is better. A complete about-face like this is insulting to those readers who have supported the company and kept them afloat all these years.

Now, as a storyline, that Amazonian thing is one of the most blatantly ignorant ideas I've ever heard of in the industry. DC absolutely has no clue what they're doing, and Johns, Didio and Lee are in waaaaaaay over their heads.

**Earth 2 Chris** · Mar 23, '12, 2:22 PM

Clearly, DC has decided to just throw out everything and only take the basic concepts and rethink them, no matter how drastic the new thinking is. The past is completely irrelevant to them. It's said to see the oldest continuing comic publisher reduced to such lows.

Chris

**boynightwing** · Mar 23, '12, 2:27 PM

Wonder Woman is one of my favorite titles in the New 52.

I think I'll read it and see how it plays out before getting worked up. Granted that scenario you just presented is pretty awful and I can see where something like that would be very upsetting to a long time fan of the character. I was/am pretty upset over the whole "Batman Inc." debacle so I know you're pain if you're not enjoying the current run.

I'm betting it's not the whole story though. We're getting a glimpse or perhaps one readers opinion as to what happened or will happen in upcoming issues.

Also, I'm just curious as to where you got the horror comic idea from? It seems not so much horror but rather that she's delving more in to Greek mythology then perhaps she has ever gone before. Or rather not a very clean mythology. The Greek Gods had a lot of power but it seems they were mostly using it for themselves and didn't really behave all that Godlike to me when I look back on it. I don't see horror comic. I see Wonder Woman protecting a girl who got pregnant by Zues from some petty vengeful Gods and other creatures they have at their disposal.

**kingdom warrior** · Mar 23, '12, 2:43 PM

What I can't really understand, is why didn't DC just go the route that Marvel did with the Ultimates line.

What's so hard about having a whole new line? if you want to change things up give them new origins,costumes,concepts. without Bleeping messing with the regular line.

That's why I dug the Ultimates line they changed things up a bit...experimented without messing with original characters at the time.

Keep the Old timers Happy while bringing in(laughs) new fans........

**samurainoir** · Mar 23, '12, 2:45 PM

I haven't read the latest issue yet, but the first six issue Wonder Woman arc has been excellent thus far, so I'm on board with what Azerello is doing... Which I'm assuming is creating a conflict engine to drive the story between Diana and her people. I do think the character is as open to interpretation and reimagination as Batman is given her mythical roots (which is all about constantly evolving a story to suit multi generations of audience). I think most agree that the high points are Perez and Lynda Carter, and even those are mies apart from each other as well as her very earliest incarnation.

Otherwise, Wonder Woman would still be mired in spanking and bondage fetishism ( as her creator intended).

WONDER WOMAN #19-WITCH DOCTOR-BONDAGE! 52pgs-VG/FN-1946 | eBay

WONDER WOMAN #219 Fine, Playful Bondage Cover, DC Comics 1975 | eBay

**boynightwing** · Mar 23, '12, 2:50 PM

Okay, I just read the issue. Wonder Woman #7. I had picked it up today and hadn't read it till I read this thread and made it my priority to see what's what.

It's a good issue. Really good. Moving in fact.

Wonder Woman is learning a lot about her history and heritage and has discovered it's not all sunshine and rainbows. Just like us. Just like real life. How often has history been painted one way for us and we've researched it and found it otherwise? Paradise Island is still a beautiful and wonderful place, but I like that there is an element there, hidden, that isn't perfect. It's something to be ashamed of. Something that Wonder Woman was going to find out about eventually. Just like the Vulcans. They're all logic and perfection, but once every seven years that logic breaks down entirely. They do things they don't wish to think of or talk about. It's the same here really.

And Wonder Woman doesn't approve of this. She didn't jump on board and say "yeah! Lets go mate with some sailors!" She was sickened by it. The heart of the story is really that not every Amazon conceives a female. What happens to the boys? It's really interesting.

I don't think anyone is wrong for not liking this. It's not everyone's cup of tea. But DC isn't "stupid" for allowing this story to happen. It was very interesting and moving. I don't think this issue is going to put them out of business. Nor do I think the direction they are taking with her to be all that bad. It's refreshing to me. It's not the same old.

**GaryPlaysWithDolls** · Mar 23, '12, 2:50 PM

Wow, DC really is trying to flush their characters down the toilet. Great work!

**GaryPlaysWithDolls** · Mar 23, '12, 2:53 PM

Ya'know, sometimes radical re-invenion stories like this might work better with analog characters rather than the real deal. This reminds me of something that might happen in a Warren Ellis PLANETARY issue. (I was going to say ASTRO CITY, but I don't think that is quite right.)

**Werewolf** · Mar 23, '12, 2:56 PM

A nasty pic from Sam in my Wonder Woman thread even though I specifically requested no pics. Comics from that era were filled with sexism, racism and questionable stories. You could find poor taste images from a lot of comics.

Bob Kane was a hack, but Batman still turned out to be a great iconic character thanks to the early contributions of better writers and artists. Same with WW.

**boynightwing** · Mar 23, '12, 3:00 PM

Don't let some article dictate what you'll like or not like. They read it and then put a personal spin on it and then put it on some blog. Read it for yourself and decide if it is really as bad as all that. I can tell you, I've read it, it's not that bad. In fact, it's the opposite of bad. It changes NOTHING about the character of Wonder Woman. In fact, it cements just how great she really is. She has such a strong moral fiber and is such a good role model for girls (and boys! she's a role model for me too!). That hasn't changed. It just gave her a little more depth.

There was no toilet flushing in this comic. I promise.

**Werewolf** · Mar 23, '12, 3:17 PM

Originally posted by boynightwing

That hasn't changed. It just gave her a little more depth.

I have to respectfully disagree. WW can have depth without changing the amazons into male killers.

**samurainoir** · Mar 23, '12, 3:19 PM

Very well stated Carl, on all points. I just grabbed my copy off the reading pile as well, and it really is quite a touching story.

And as we can clearly see in the old issues... Amazons have been open to quite a number of different interpretations even within Wonder Woman's history. She'll survive this incarnation as well.

Particularly since it introduces the concept of the "male Amazons"... that in counterpoint actually embody all the ideals that Wonder Woman's Amazons have given a great deal of lip service to over the years.

Keep in mind, that this is actually a story relayed from the POV of Haephestus, and we have not been given the opposing side by the Amazons... YET. For anyone familiar with Azzerello's work on 100 Bullets... he tends to work a great deal around what is NOT spoken. I'm on board for the rest of this storyline.

I think that hysteria of this nature is completely unwarranted and counterproductive if someone hasn't actually read the story in question, especially with something as nuanced and filled with subtext as this particular story. But, in a public forum, given that no one "owns" a thread, that's why we choose share our opinions in this particular format to express our ideas... to engage in a form of discourse. Otherwise that is what personal blogs are for... soapbox without feedback (and the power to control the comments in response).

**samurainoir** · Mar 23, '12, 3:39 PM

On a sidenote... nice to have Cliff Chiang back on art, and he's just killing it. Particularly on the depiction of Haephestus... the perfect balance of monstrous, yet amazingly sympathetic. They really are giving a great deal of thought and imagination to how the outward appearance of the gods relate to their character.

**boynightwing** · Mar 23, '12, 5:29 PM

I keep thinking about those original pictures of Wonder Woman from the 40's and 50's with all the bondage and such. That was how she was originally intended to be. Which is kind of sad. Thankfully somewhere down the road somebody realized that she could be so much more and made some changes.

Did those original Wonder Woman fans get upset? Did they too accuse DC of ruining their good time? Did anyone have the right to evolve her in to something more then what she was intended to be? I think so. It was a good thing. It still is.

Wonder Woman that we know and love has become something static. We know what she stands for and what to expect. We've been there, and seen that. Her sales were dropping, and over the last decade, it seems they've tried everything. She was a spy for awhile and Donna Troy was WW. She killed Max Lord. Then JMS did...whatever it was he did. I think he was on the right track but it wasn't executed properly and he did not follow through with it. He just kinda left it part way for something and thus didn't give it the respect it deserved.

Brian Azzarello is doing what JMS either couldn't or just plain didn't. He's giving us something new, but he's still keeping Diana and her persona intact. He's exploring the darker side of her origins. Some people don't like that and it's fine that they don't. At least it's something we haven't seen before. He felt that there was more to Wonder Woman than what was originally intended (even more then her Post Crisis reboot) and he's exploring that. More power to him.

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Depressing Wonder Woman spoilers.

Depressing Wonder Woman spoilers.

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