DC Solits

[samurainoir]

At some point, I'm suspecting the factory mentality at Crossgen must have gotten to Greg Land (although how that can be when you've got George Perez in the same studio). I don't think there is anyone here who disputes Land's more recent stuff as pretty lazy... particularly when the character doesn't even look the same from panel to panel (I think his Maxim swipe file is well documented).

There was a time though before he drank the Koolaid down in florida or wherever Crossgen's offices were located, that he was doing some decent work launching the Birds of Prey ongoing series.


but at the end of the day, Land is the easy target. it's the Giants of the Photo Realism movement like Adams or Raymond, who actually made it work and created brilliant game-changing artwork using clear detailed photographic influence.

It's like taking on Expressionism... it's easy to go after Liefeld. Much harder to fault Mignola, who really makes it work despite a lack of anatomy (which isn't to say he does not compensate with structure). Or Kirby for that matter (who had a great deal of criticism in the late seventies early eighties, I think most folks forget that, but you only have to read the fan press of that period).

[kingdom warrior]

Ed, I am a fan of Neal Adams,I've met the man countless times, and he's critiqued my portfolio showing me my strength and weaknesses in my art. It was Neal and Mark Beachum who taught me how to ink with a brush. how to get old school feathering effects.

Neal also encouraged me to continue with my photography that I still do to this day.
I was taught to build my own photo reference library so I had my own pics to use when drawing.

But I don't scan them into a computer and use filters to make it look like a drawing. I don't take a pic of a friend in a superheroic pose and then filter it in photoshop to get that modern comic book look......

I do it by looking at my reference and letting my eye and hand choose the elements to recreate the drawing but add more elements that a phot does not have.

Neal Adams can draw his *** off he came up with poses because he still knew how to draw.....it wasn't all through photos

I sat and watched Mark Beachum go through his photo reference of sexy women that he shot on his own(models I know hubba hubba) and draw right in front of me realistically BUT with a comic book Flare (pun intended)........

again I,me prefers artist who know how to draw old school with out the computer,.....as i say artist who know their ****......


Ed please please resize your pics......they are very difficult to see in those ginormous size you post them in....

Steve.

[samurainoir]

^^^
and neither do the three artists you picked out. As you can see from their original art, they are old school pencil and ink slingers. Not photo shop jockeys (like that whipper snapper Brian Bolland... And Adam Hughes has also been digitally painting). I think a great many would disagree with Gene Ha (top ten) being labelled a photo realist... And that really doesn't do Ryan Sook much justice as well given his versatility (if you could somehow meld the Mignola shadow influence). Harris by his own admission feels shackled by his photo reference, yet post Starman/pre ex machina, he did away with it for a much more liberating cartoony style... And his fans stayed away in droves. There were obvious choices they made in their lines as much as Adams does in that black and white art. In fact I'd say the brushwork (sook in particular) is far superior to Adams' current artistic output (not to take anything away from his long and successful career on top for many decades). Plus all three sell their original art as well, just to put that one to bed.

My point is that you can't lump an entire Photo Realist movement (s), nor dismiss a tool if it works. Alex Raymond was fastidious about drawing from his photo references, it's quite well documented. Neal Adams needed to study photos to get to his style... And has even admitted to tracing... Not redrawing... In his own words above quoted, on occasion he traced to get his result. If Greg Land is judged by one set of criteria, the the goalposts can't be moved for someone else just because they did it so well. At the end of the day it's the results... And those issues of X-men are no less wonderful no matter how he got there. Everyone sees the failures, but no one pokes at the successes.

There was a really interesting observation of the results of one of Alex Raymonds attempts to swipe Milton Caniff... I think the example was a leather jacket that Caniff so effortlessly defined with a batch of thick expressive lines. Raymond was so immersed in his photo realism that he just couldn't pull it off, it was outside his wheelhouse to draw it freehand. I don't think it makes him any less of a master. He just had his methodology.

[samurainoir]

And my apologies on the pic size... I just assume that if they fit on my iPad screen, they are okay.

[samurainoir]

If you can find the Imaginefx issues on how Adam Hughes uses photoshop... Well worth it. Blame the artist if you must, not the tools.

[kingdom warrior]

The tools are there for the accomplished artist to enhance his work.......it's when you get young artist OR artist who are hacks and have not learned their craft working with tools they in reality have no business using.

again all that software is a crutch in reality a cheat to get a job done......the effects can be spectacular but it's not honest. No you did not paint that you applied colors in a software program you make a mistake CLICK quick fix.....

On canvas and paper it's not that easy, you may have to do a few studies to get it right......that's evolving that's thinking about what you're doing knowing that your supplies are limited......

[samurainoir]

The tools are there for the accomplished artist to enhance his work.......it's when you get young artist OR artist who are hacks and have not learned their craft working with tools they in reality have no business using.

On this we agree.

What we disagree with is WHO those are. Not that you don't see Harris, Sook or Ha getting caught taking shortcuts, but all three are twenty (plus) year seasoned WORKING pros at the top of their game with high paying DC Cover gigs, on top of their regular interior work (that in itself should be admired when you have guys who ONLY do cover these days). Their track records and respective body of works speak for themselves, no matter what either of us have to say about it. They all walk the walk.

[kingdom warrior]

On this we agree.

What we disagree with is WHO those are. Not that you don't see Harris, Sook or Ha getting caught taking shortcuts, but all three are twenty (plus) year seasoned WORKING pros at the top of their game with high paying DC Cover gigs, on top of their regular interior work (that in itself should be admired when you have guys who ONLY do cover these days). Their track records and respective body of works speak for themselves, no matter what either of us have to say about it. They all walk the walk.

Totally Agree.....