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DC Reboot: Final thoughts before it hits

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  • Earth 2 Chris
    Verbose Member
    • Mar 7, 2004
    • 32966

    DC Reboot: Final thoughts before it hits

    Okay, this may seem like beating a dead horse, but I wanted to put my thoughts on this all in one place. I am a diehard DC fan from way back, but in recent years, the direction of the line has really put me off, to the point of not buying the monthly comics. The recent news of this reboot has just compounded my disgust that my favorite characters are being woefully mishandled.

    But my personal feelings aside, it seems really obvious that DC has been changing direction willy-nilly for half a decade now. A strong editorial hand can steer you into clear water, or smash you into the rocks.

    While lip service has been paid to there being a "master plan" for the DC over the last several years, these events, to me, prove that is in no way true:

    • Just a few years ago, DC released two mega-event comics that once again changed their continuity and created a new multiverse for creators to play with, those being Infinite Crisis and 52. Current head DC writers Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison were involved. The multiverse concept was the perfect way to execute a company wide reboot. Just shift the focus to another Earth. That way if the reboot tanks, just shift the focus back.

    • When the Young Justice animated series was launched, DC made sure that the fans knew that this series was legit by taking place on one of the 52 Earths, Earth 16 to be exact. This indicated that DC Comics would be working more closely with other arms of their brand to ensure corporate synergy across the board. Well...

    • Status quos were changed "forever" in several titles coming out of these events and the "One Year Later" stunt that propelled the titles a year forward in the characters' timelines. THIS was meant to be a great jumping on point for new readers. The new status quos established in these books were quickly abandoned due to multiple crossovers.

    • Countdown was created as a weekly follow-up to 52 and a lead-in to Final Crisis, which was meant to put a cap on all the DC mega events. The events in Countdown made little sense, because events in Final Crisis did not line up with them. Other similar editorial snafus occurred at this time, such as New God characters dying, but returning in other books with no explanation.

    • Blackest Night was a hugely popular crossover event for DC. The edict from editorial was death was now permanent in the DCU. The follow-up series Brightest Day followed several revived heroes, re-established for a new DCU. As soon as the last issue shipped, DC announced they were totally rebooting their comics line...

    To me, this all points to the fact that no one at DC has made any long term plans, despite the fact they insist they have. If you are going to undertake such ambitious projects, shouldn't you wait and let them bear fruit? Brightest Day is the biggest kicker of all.

    If DC's reins had changed hands during all of this, I could understand the constant change in direction, but Dan Didio has been at the helm this whole time.

    Now to the reboots themselves:

    • Gripes about individual title direction aside, NOT rebooting the Batman and Green Lantern titles along with everything else is just mind-boggling. I know that the GL titles are extremely popular, and Morrison is DC's most lauded writer currently working for them, but cheery-picking what stays and what goes like this seems disastrous and off-putting to new and old readers alike.

    • The 5 year plan doesn't really work. For instance, apparently Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake AND Damian Wayne were all Robin over a 5 year period!!! Batman went through Robins like toilet paper.

    • It almost appears that there are TWO separate reboots of Superman going on. I know Morrison's Action is set in the past, but with two incredibly divergent takes on the Superman look (T-shirt Paul Bunyan/Bruce Springsteen in Action, over-armored Kryptonian in Superman) the effect is two different iterations of the character coexisting.

    • The random selection of which characters exist, and which do not is puzzling. Fan favorite characters such as Wally West and Donna Troy apparently do not exist. This despite the fact that Wally West is the version of Kid Flash seen on the Young Justice animated series.

    • In interviews that have been published online thus far, many of the creators seem confused about what is going on with their titles. They also seem very defensive, as if they know what they are doing is extremely risky, and potentially off-putting.

    • Many of the redesigns make the characters unrecognizable, which seems counter-productive to corporate synergy when there are cartoons, toys, clothing, etc out there with the classic designs. Plus, let's face it, many of them are very dated to the early 90s look epitomized by Marvel's X-Men and early Image titles.

    Over all the impression to me is that this reboot is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to continually flagging sales. The abrupt ending to the current titles indicates that this reboot was not thought up very far ahead of time, especially considering the magnitude of this relaunch.

    Chris
    sigpic
  • The Toyroom
    The Packaging King
    • Dec 31, 2004
    • 16653

    #2
    Couldn't have said it better myself....

    I'm not optimistic about any of this. The only bright spot for me is Aquaman in his own title again with a good creative team and all of the classic elements that make him cool IMO. But how the relaunched universe and his place in it is effected is still unknown.

    Other than that I have no hopes for any of this winning me over and being successful...
    Think OUTSIDE the Box! For the BEST in Repro & Custom Packaging!

    Comment

    • madmarva
      Talkative Member
      • Jul 7, 2007
      • 6445

      #3
      Chris and Anthony,

      There is no doubt all of your arguments are valid, particularly the one about Diddio's stint as editor of the DCU. Basically, he threw stuff against the wall to see if it would stick. When it didn't, he would have someone else take the concept and do their and see if it worked. Basically, he gave creators 6 months to year (some a bit more) to push the sales and if they couldn't, make a switch.

      This led to some good comics. DC's best stuff was as solid as any other company's efforts. Even some things that weren't popular were well written (Rucka's Flamebird and Nightwing retooling), but not popular.

      But Brainstorm publishing produces more bad ideas than good no matter how talented the editors and creators are. It also wreaks havoc on continuity from a fans' standpoint.

      While I enjoy continuity, I honestly don't think creators should be a slave to it. What was printed 20, 40, and 70 years ago can't be as important and always be serviced by the new material. I do think just ignoring some continuity is better than rebooting all the time. I mean, I find the silver-age continuity, the Byrne reboot, Waid's Birthright, John's Secret Origins all fine adaptations of Superman's origin, but I would rather those creators spend time developing good new stories than spinning their wheels revamping the origin.

      But, I'm not as pessimistic about this reboot as you guys are. This does seem to be a plan not just more shotgun publishing. Evidently, Diddio wanted to do a relauch like this after Infinite Crisis but the higher ups wouldn't allow it.

      I don't know if it will work or not, but I do want to see what Morrison does with Superman (sounds like he's going back to the golden-age version and supposedly the arc leads directly to the uniform Superman wears in the Perez series). I hate the belt and the lack of trunks.

      No, the five year thing doesn't work for Batman, but maybe the creative teams have an explanation that they don't want to give away before the comics come out.

      As for Green Lantern, yeah it's tough to fit the rise and fall and return of Hal into five years, but again, it's hard to fit 50 years of continuity into 10 comic book years in the latest continuity shift.

      But, not mucking with GL and Batman at this time is a business decision. Those titles are selling well and DC doesn't want to take a chance with changing things too much. Not broke; don't fix it. Sales are more important than whether Batman has been around for 5 or 15 years.

      I don't like losing Kid Flash , but who is to say that they are not going to re-create him?
      While I loved Donna Troy in the Teen Titans and written by Wolfman in the 1980s, no one has known what to do with her since. And didn't she begin as being Wonder Woman as a young girl or an imaginary type character in the 1960s before DC put her in the Teen Titans. Her continuity was crazy before Crisis and even worse after.

      I actually grew to like Connor Kent Superboy and Loeb's Supergirl was better than Byrne's version, but their new redesigns look horrible to me. But in my mind, the "real" Supergirl died in 1985-86 in Crisis and "real' Superboy will always be Superman when he was a boy, and Huntress is Batman and Catwoman's daughter on E2.

      I like the fact Johns and Lee are doing the Justice League. It's long been my contention the JLA should be the cornerstone of the DC universe and it looks like that might be the case in the new continuity. It should be an event book every month and even if the stories in it don't dovetail with the regular title's continuity, that should be OK. It's more important to have the best characters available for the cornerstone book than a minor continuity glitch, IMO.

      I'm looking forward to the so called Dark books and possibly the war books. Maybe Jonah Hex having Western tales in the East (Gotham) will make sense.

      I know I'm not going to change your minds on this with my arguments, but I really see this as a direction from DC rather than it just running around willy nilly like they have in the past.

      If it buries DC that will be sad, but the company's sales are pretty stagnant already. I'm glad DC is attempting something and I'm hoping it will be good.
      Last edited by madmarva; Aug 20, '11, 11:50 AM.

      Comment

      • The Toyroom
        The Packaging King
        • Dec 31, 2004
        • 16653

        #4
        Good points also Terry....I just think that we've been burned so much in the past that it's hard to see an actual plan even IF there is one this time around.

        I sincerely hope I'm wrong...not that I wanna eat crow ...but I grew up with these characters and I guess I still don't want to grow up
        Think OUTSIDE the Box! For the BEST in Repro & Custom Packaging!

        Comment

        • ctc
          Fear the monkeybat!
          • Aug 16, 2001
          • 11183

          #5
          Hmmmm....

          Every year when it snows the news networks freak out over the "KILLER SNOWSTORMS!!!!! AAAAHHHH!!!!!!" Even though snow in winter really isn't a big deal 'cos it happens every year. I see this new 52 thingie as much the same.

          Don C.

          Comment

          • madmarva
            Talkative Member
            • Jul 7, 2007
            • 6445

            #6
            but I grew up with these characters and I guess I still don't want to grow u
            You can call me Peter Pan.

            Comment

            • BlackKnight
              The DarkSide Customizer
              • Apr 16, 2005
              • 14622

              #7
              At this point Chris ..., given your many, many past posts on the subject and the many times I've read you were not buying any of them , nore do you really buy anything now .... I guess it would be considered beating a dead horse.

              I've got interest in a handful of books and see where it goes.... They are not changing it back unless the relaunch fails ..., but at that point it's what ? Too Late ?
              ... The Original Knight ..., Often Imitated, However Never Duplicated. The 1st Knight in Customs.


              always trading for Hot Toys Figures .

              Comment

              • Earth 2 Chris
                Verbose Member
                • Mar 7, 2004
                • 32966

                #8
                ^Well, consider this my final word on the subject. Okay, well maybe not my final word, but I won't start another thread like this. I may weigh in on the particulars, but not the event as a whole from now on.

                I've read thousands of other posts where folks bellyached about stuff they didn't like, so I figure there's a precedent for it.

                I agree with many of the points you made Terry. Believe it or not, I think continuity can be a burden more than a tool at times. I think DC would have been better served to just tell classic type stories NOT bogged down in continuity. But this relaunch is actually compounding matters by forcing readers to accept a new, altered continuity, where some aspects of the previous one are intact. It's even more compounded than the Post-Crisis version.

                Chris
                sigpic

                Comment

                • Blue Meanie
                  Talkative Member
                  • Jun 23, 2001
                  • 8706

                  #9
                  I'll tell it like it is...I WAS a HUGE DC fan...Now I've quit all the DC titles (except for Tiny Titans...Aww Yeah) I've been collecting for close to 33 years...and both DC and Marvel have done what I didn't think could possibly be done...Make me quit comics. Thanks.

                  This re-boot is gonna SUCK. Everyone knows it. The trick will be for DC to try and regain the older comic book collectors after all the re-boot titles get canceled. Tick off the collectors one to many times and it will bite you in the you know what. And that's precisely what it has done....all for the MIGHTY DOLLAR...or should I say 3 Dollars. Sad.

                  If this was done to bring in NEW readers then DC should do some research on ADD...cause that's what the so called NEW readers/collectors/speculators have. They DON'T stick with titles, let alone the collecting aspect of comics. It's just a FACT. The number 1's will sell like crazy...and all the VARIANT CRAP will sell, and then be re-sold and then re-sold again..but that's it. I think DC will stick with this for a year before pulling the plug...but after that year they will be completely SCREWED. Try selling 6 different Batman and Superman titles again to the older collectors/readers you ticked off. Thanks for playing.
                  "When not too many people can see we're all the same
                  And because of all their tears,
                  Their eyes can't hope to see
                  The beauty that surrounds them
                  Isn't it a pity".

                  - "Isn't It A Pity"
                  By George Harrison


                  My Good Buyers/Sellers/Traders list:
                  Good Traders List - Page 80 - Mego Talk

                  Comment

                  • madmarva
                    Talkative Member
                    • Jul 7, 2007
                    • 6445

                    #10
                    I see your point Chris about compounding the continuity issues and no doubt DC will stumble over continuity points at times like always, but as a reader I'm approaching these comics with a blank slate like I did when I first started reading in the 70s or like with the Byrne reboot.

                    There were a ton of comics about Superman I never read before I began reading around 1973 or 74, but I still enjoyed the new comics and I sought out a ton of the older ones when they were referenced in stories.

                    But I didn't start out knowing anything about Superman other than what I saw on the old TV show. Frankly it's what made comics fun and it's what has me believing this relaunch could be fun.

                    I think the editors and Byrne said with that reboot if we don't say its happened or reference it in a story, don't just assume it happened or it happened the way it did in previous continuity.

                    I don't find it that complicated because I'm not going to assume anything to begin with. Like I did with Byrne's Superman, Perez's Wonder Woman, Frank Miller's Batman Year One, and when I first started reading, I'm going to learn as I go. And, honestly, I think those creators largely enriched if not improved the characters with the reboots. Maybe this bunch of creators will do the same without having to worry about post-Crisis, post-1-year later continuity.

                    I know I will have preferences from the past, but hey if I want to enjoy the ongoing or new adventures of the heroes, this is what I have.

                    While I'm not enthused about everything I've read that's going to happen or rumored to be happening, I am looking forward to seeing what DC does. Some of it may be fantastic and I'm pretty such some of it will be a car wreck. Either way I'm going to check some of it out because I love a lot of the characters and I love comics.

                    But that's just me.

                    Comment

                    • samurainoir
                      Eloquent Member
                      • Dec 26, 2006
                      • 18758

                      #11
                      Am I really the only one who's reading habits aren't being interrupted in the slightest by the reboot?

                      Green Lantern by Johns
                      Aquaman by john's
                      Batman inc when it comes back by Morrison

                      Trying out action, animal man and justice league.

                      Going to pick up Batman Earth 1, New Teen Titans Games. Grant Morrison's multiversevwhen it does come out.

                      Continuing Tiny Titans, Fables and Scalped. Getting Fables - fairest.

                      Dropping Flash
                      Losing Birds of Prey which gets replaced by Batgirl.
                      My store in the MEGO MALL!

                      BUY THE CAPTAIN CANUCK ACTION FIGURE HERE!

                      Comment

                      • BlackKnight
                        The DarkSide Customizer
                        • Apr 16, 2005
                        • 14622

                        #12
                        Originally posted by samurainoir

                        Going to pick up Batman Earth 1, New Teen Titans Games.

                        I want both of these books too ....
                        Sept for Games I think ..., When's Batman Earth 1 Due out ?
                        ... The Original Knight ..., Often Imitated, However Never Duplicated. The 1st Knight in Customs.


                        always trading for Hot Toys Figures .

                        Comment

                        • Werewolf
                          Inhuman
                          • Jul 14, 2003
                          • 14974

                          #13
                          I'm not too obessive about continuity.

                          My feeling is keep what works and get rid of what doesn't. In the reboot I really like that Babs is back as Batgirl but I would have prefered they got rid of the killing joke storyline as well.

                          Shooting her in the back like that was ugly and should have never happened, in my opinion. DC's now infamous "cripple the *****" idea is still kind of a sore spot with me. The story was not originally intended to be canon and should not have been.
                          You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

                          Comment

                          • BlackKnight
                            The DarkSide Customizer
                            • Apr 16, 2005
                            • 14622

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Werewolf
                            I'm not too obessive about continuity.

                            My feeling is keep what works and get rid of what doesn't. In the reboot I really like that Babs is back as Batgirl but I would have prefered they got rid of the killing joke storyline as well.

                            Shooting her in the back like that was ugly and should have never happened, in my opinion. DC's now infamous "cripple the *****" idea is still kind of a sore spot with me. The story was not originally intended to be canon and should not have been.
                            Well Said on all points ... I'm pretty excited for that book too. I've hated all other Batgirl/Women and whatever. I can't wait till she's back.
                            ... The Original Knight ..., Often Imitated, However Never Duplicated. The 1st Knight in Customs.


                            always trading for Hot Toys Figures .

                            Comment

                            • madmarva
                              Talkative Member
                              • Jul 7, 2007
                              • 6445

                              #15
                              When's Batman Earth 1 Due out ?
                              Amazon.com says May 8 of 2012. Sweet cover.

                              Comment

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