DC's real problem right now

[samurainoir]

This is highly subjective of course, but I think DC's problem isn't so much the gimmicks (marvels pulling this as well), but while they have been focussing on these Events... Marvels quietly sucked up all the Writing talent for the most part leaving huge gaps for DC to fill. So much so that to keep their artists, they are letting them write a bit too many relaunch titles.

Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns really are their only Marquee talents with the sales clout behind them. Whenever these guys move off a book, for the most part the sales go along with them.

Not to say that Gail Simone or Brian Azzerello or Jeff Lumire or James Robinson don't have chops... Just not the sales necessarily guaranteed by putting them on any given book. They are all performing mid-listers right now sales-wise.

Meanwhile, DC let slip a ridiculous amount of talent to Marvel who really are given free reign to do some of their best work. Jason Aaron, Ed Brubaker, named two of Marvel's architects stolen from DC just as they were breaking out, are bringing their A game to Captain America, Wolverine, X-Men, Secret Avengers, and PunisherMax.

[samurainoir]

Folks might not be too fond of Jeph Loeb at Marvel, but Red Hulk brought in the sales numbers, again snatched from DC while he was cresting on stuff like Superman/Batman. Mark Waid and Greg Rucko coming off of a huge win with 52 weren't quite given the freedom they craved... Now relaunching Daredevil and Punisher.

All these guys in addition to writing machine Bendis, Mark Millar (again, initially snatched from DC), and guys who got grabbed because of their mind-blowing indie work... Matt Fraction and John Hickman. That is a minimum of at least 6-8 "name" writers right now, with a second tier of former Indy talent being groomed like Nick Spencer and Rick Remender, along with a stable that sometimes brings the surprise hits... Dan Slott (spiderman), Abnett and Lanning (Annihilation), and Greg Pak (arguably yanked from the Hulk as he was riding the crest of Planet Hulk/WWHulk).


Meanwhile DC has snatched JMS from Marvel with extremely mixed results, and brought back Paul Jenkins (who started at Vertigo), with a track record yet to be determined.

[The Toyroom]

Can't argue with that....DC promoting artists to writer/artists with no proven track record seems desperate to me...David Finch can't meet his deadlines on a book with just his art...Now you're going to add writing to it as well? Stupid...

[samurainoir]

DC's currently got a Retro stunt going on that has brought back Denny O'Neil, Carey Bates, William Messner Loebs amongst others. I'm sure DC must be scanning their sales on these for potential. But it's been a mixed bag bringing back the old guard... Bob Harras is filling out his relaunch writing roster with 90's Marvel guys like Fabian Nicienza Tom DeFalco, and Scott Lobdell. Jim shooter was vocally unhappy with how he felt jerked around by DC... Particularly when "his" 70's Legion suddenly came back... In another book. Paul Levitz hasn't really shown much of a sales presence with his titles... But let's be frank, his writing appointment is pretty much a gold watch for decades of service... Not unlike Tom DeFalco's dozen years of quietly writing Marvel projects for a dozen years after he was ousted as EIC.

[samurainoir]

Can't argue with that....DC promoting artists to writer/artists with no proven track record seems desperate to me...David Finch can't meet his deadlines on a book with just his art...Now you're going to add writing to it as well? Stupid...

Lest any of us forget Neal Adams Batman misfire. But let's be realistic... Anyone following wis writing at Continuity Comics in the 80's could have told you the man is not much of a writer. Meanwhile... DENNY O'NEAL IS STANDING RIGHT THERE! Heck, I'm by far not a Steve Englehart fan, but I don't doubt that he probably had a script or two he was hoping Marshal Rogers could have illustrated prior to his passing... Why not get Adams to draw that? Of course we now know Frank Miller was originally slated to write the Adams book..

And I really really hate to say this, but letting Frank Miller walk with Holy Terror Batman was probably not a great idea. The voice of fandom was loud, but the sales on anything Miller touches withBatman do well for DC's bottom line... And it's always an else worlds anyways. Given the timing recent real world events, Holy Terror would have given DC's marketing dept what they needed to get front page coverage.

[The Toyroom]

As a longtime Legion fan, Shooter's new approach was unreadable for me (though I'm sure it was mandated by DC editorial)....Levitz has been a bit better but it still feels like something is missing. Yes it's supposedly the same Legion he last wrote all those years ago but it doesn't always feel like it. But that's really DC's (and his fault when he was publisher) for rebooting the series so many times...the Giffen 5 Years Later era, the Threeboot, the Waid/Kitson era....

[The Toyroom]

Lest any of us forget Neal Adams Batman misfire. But let's be realistic... Anyone following wis writing at Continuity Comics in the 80's could have told you the man is not much of a writer. Meanwhile... DENNY O'NEAL IS STANDING RIGHT THERE! Heck, I'm by far not a Steve Englehart fan, but I don't doubt that he probably had a script or two he was hoping Marshal Rogers could have illustrated prior to his passing... Why not get Adams to draw that? Of course we now know Frank Miller was originally slated to write the Adams book..

IMO Adams is resting on his laurels as an artist....Don't get me wrong...His stuff is still better than a lot of the modern guys but it seems more "hyper" than ever before...And Adams only THINKS he's a writer....he's not

And I really really hate to say this, but letting Frank Miller walk with Holy Terror Batman was probably not a great idea. The voice of fandom was loud, but the sales on anything Miller touches withBatman do well for DC's bottom line... And it's always an else worlds anyways. Given the timing recent real world events, Holy Terror would have given DC's marketing dept what they needed to get front page coverage.

Miller's star doesn't shine as brightly anymore...his All-Star project was a fiasco even though it did good sales numbers...He is crossing over in to hack territory as well...And I'm sure his "Spirit" movie flop didn't help his celebrity status...

[Bizarro Amy]

Although I absolutely loved the Waid/Kitson era, the new Legion books coming out might be the only monthly books I check out right away. Levitz isn't a superstar writer, but I think he's dependable for a good read.

[madmarva]

Look I love DC's characters. They are my favorites, but there are just more Marvel fans and for whatever reason — be it editorial freedom, the more grounded nature of the Marvel Universe or just better characters — creators tend to do more popular work and maybe better work for Marvel than DC.

Ed Brubaker wasn't a chump writer when he was working on Batman for DC, but his work on Cap. America at Marvel sold a lot better. I like Cap, but I think Batman's a better character but Brubaker's work on Cap has sold better and might have just plain been better.

The Marvel Architects was/is a great marketing ploy.Going into 52 DC had a similar setup with Morrison, Johns, Rucka, Keith Giffen and Waid with three of the five actually being paid not only a freelancers but also as consultants, but DC editorial failed to slap a name on it like Marvel.

But DC does have some new writers like Lemire and particularly Scott Snyder that are showing a ton of promise. Snyder's run on Detective was/is fantastic. If you are looking for a Batman book to read in the relaunch, I'd suggest Batman because of him. I'm also looking forward to what he will do with Swamp Thing and Frankenstein.

Roberson has done some nice stuff in Superman after taking over for JMS. I'm a little disappointed he's not writing a Supeman book where he can take the character where he wants instead of following JMS's road map. I think Morrison's Superman will be interesting, but Perez? We'll see.

Tomasi and Bedard may not be stars but they are better than average. Simone and Azzerello, as Samurainoir mentioned, are good, too.

But I'd like to see more by Wein, Wolfman, O'Neil, Bates and Englehart.

I'm hoping the new launch or whatever it's being called this week does the trick for DC. I think the talent is there, they just have to pull it together.

[Random Axe]

I don't want to over simplify things, but I know I will. Why wasn't it possible to put together these creative teams and still maintain 75-80 percent of current continuity? Sure Flashpoint could have eliminated some of the more distasteful events and stories of the last decade, but it could also have left some good stuff in place.

I don't doubt DC needed to do something major to bring the publisher back into high profitablilty, or even marginal, but this is not the answer. We all know this. They should know this. Just cut the stuff that tarnished the books and start fresh with a slightly altered continuity. I really liked Identity Crisis. I may be the only one. I don't think it necessarily needs to be canon for DC. Wipe out Final Crisis, a chunk of 52 and Blackest Night and then go back to basics for these books and really have passionate creators working on them.

Sounds simple, probably isn't. It's sure a whole helluva lot easier than redesigning and re-envisioning most of the universe. Just envision some cool stories and, for the first time in the Didio reign, SHOW THE CHARACTERS A LITTLE RESPECT. You'd be surprised how just a bit of consideration and reverence would go. Superman in a T-shirt? Really? African Batman? Huh? Martian Manhunter in Stormwatch?

I won't go into specific writer/artist combos, but those match-ups should have happened a long, long time ago. Why wait till they are on the brink of irrelevance before acting? I truly and literally love DC comics. They were a major part of my childhood. It saddens me to see the actions, or inactions, of a few tearing that foundation apart.

Seeing Superman in jeans and Timberlands physically makes me nauseous.

[VintageMike]

I don't want to over simplify things, but I know I will. Why wasn't it possible to put together these creative teams and still maintain 75-80 percent of current continuity? Sure Flashpoint could have eliminated some of the more distasteful events and stories of the last decade, but it could also have left some good stuff in place.

I don't doubt DC needed to do something major to bring the publisher back into high profitablilty, or even marginal, but this is not the answer. We all know this. They should know this. Just cut the stuff that tarnished the books and start fresh with a slightly altered continuity. I really liked Identity Crisis. I may be the only one. I don't think it necessarily needs to be canon for DC. Wipe out Final Crisis, a chunk of 52 and Blackest Night and then go back to basics for these books and really have passionate creators working on them.

Sounds simple, probably isn't. It's sure a whole helluva lot easier than redesigning and re-envisioning most of the universe. Just envision some cool stories and, for the first time in the Didio reign, SHOW THE CHARACTERS A LITTLE RESPECT. You'd be surprised how just a bit of consideration and reverence would go. Superman in a T-shirt? Really? African Batman? Huh? Martian Manhunter in Stormwatch?

I won't go into specific writer/artist combos, but those match-ups should have happened a long, long time ago. Why wait till they are on the brink of irrelevance before acting? I truly and literally love DC comics. They were a major part of my childhood. It saddens me to see the actions, or inactions, of a few tearing that foundation apart.

Seeing Superman in jeans and Timberlands physically makes me nauseous.

A lot times I think, while trying to keep with the time they lose sight of what makes many of these characters iconic to being with. It like they don't understand why Geoff Johns stuff for example has worked so well. He keeps the important parts of the characters intact while still bringing the stories fresh and current.

[The Toyroom]

Heck I'm willing to pilot the DCU for free...I'm sure I'd do a better job than what they have planned...

[samurainoir]

Although I absolutely loved the Waid/Kitson era, the new Legion books coming out might be the only monthly books I check out right away. Levitz isn't a superstar writer, but I think he's dependable for a good read.

I'm not a Legion guy, but Waid/kitson was solid for me. Also Waid's Brave and Bold. His Boom stuff isn't getting enough attention and I'll at the very least be Che king out his Daredevil.

[The Bat]

IMO Adams is resting on his laurels as an artist....Don't get me wrong...His stuff is still better than a lot of the modern guys but it seems more "hyper" than ever before...And Adams only THINKS he's a writer....he's not

Miller's star doesn't shine as brightly anymore...his All-Star project was a fiasco even though it did good sales numbers...He is crossing over in to hack territory as well...And I'm sure his "Spirit" movie flop didn't help his celebrity status...

Agreed on both points. Adams writing style on Batman was just plain awful. Hyper being an accurate word, not to mention his over inking...what a mess.

And don't get me started on Miller. He's completely lost his writing ability...or just plain doesn't give a **** anymore. It's like he's trying to destroy Batman so DC will stop asking him to do the character anymore.

I agree with you guys that DC needs some good Writers....and perhaps a new Editor as well.

[Adam West]

All points made are good and valid arguments; I just see the big picture problem in that comics are unfortunately, dying a slow death. I literally think the character licenses for movies and merchandise outside the comics have been the only thing carrying them. I really doubt the comic segment of the business is making any money and probably a loss leader for the other segments. I have a 10, 14, and 16 year old who all like ScyFy, Teen Titans, etc. but they have no interest in comics and I'm not aware of any friends of theirs that are either. So now, we are basically left with an adult audience who reads them. What happens when we are gone or simply stop buying?