Brand New Day: So Should Spiderman be Married or

[samurainoir]

Did allowing Peter and Mary Jane to get married limit the kinds of stories that could be told?

I know many who grew up with Spiderman prior to the late eighties felt the soap opera aspects of the book was an essential ingredient to the book.

It is one of the things that makes Ultimate Spiderman more of a fun read than the current 616 version.

What do you think?

[The Toyroom]

The point should be moot by now since Spidey's been married for 20 years....I don't see why Marvel feels the need to fudge around with things. Too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Especially since the movies dove right into the Mary Jane Watson-as-love-interest angle whereas chronologically it should have been Gwen Stacy 1st or even Liz Allen or Betty Brant before MJ. The general public always thinks of Peter and MJ since they've been a "super couple" for a looong time now.

As far as it limiting the kinds of stories...I say "no". They should blame the crappy writers and storylines....not the wedding rings. JMS started out decently on Amazing Spider-Man and advanced the story by having Aunt May finally find out about Pete's secret ID. But the whole Spider-Totem arc? Puh-lease Louise!

[The Bat]

I don't have a problem with Spiderman being married...but exposing His secret Identity to the World, was a REALLY BIG mistake! That's the Genie that needs to be put back in the Bottle.

[The Toyroom]

The big baddy behind this appears to be Mephisto....Spidey should NOT be dealing with Mephisto. It's ok for him to deal with cosmic crap as a member of the Avenger but not in his own book. That's where he's supposed to fight super-scientific criminals, that's his bag. Almost as stupid as Batman/Bruce Wayne dealing with the New Gods to the point where it effects his status quo.

[ctc]

>Did allowing Peter and Mary Jane to get married limit the kinds of stories that could be told?

Nope! All you'd really have to do is scratch off "girlfriend" from the old scripts and pencil in "wife." Six of one, half a dozen of another. As for the soap operatics: look at the average sitcom. You have married couples AND the usual misunderstandings, kerfluffles and hangups. Just takes a little tweaking.

>The point should be moot by now since Spidey's been married for 20 years....

Gotta agree. I think at this point it's safe to say the concept is securely entrenched.

>Spidey should NOT be dealing with Mephisto.

Well... you've got some good points; but I don't think they NEGATE the possibilty of interaction. But they do neccesate a certain amount of.... "tact" isn't the right word, but you gotta pay attention to what you're doing here.

I don't even have a huge problem with them cancelling the marriage; it'd be a spectacular tragedy if handled correctly, and could stand as one of mainstream comic's greatest lost opportunities. I think all the advanced notice puts the kaibosh on this. People get to make up their minds BEFORE seeing the story, and for the reader it's less of an event. Back in the day it'd just happen, and if you were angry about it, that'd be part of the story. It's OKAY to get mad, or sad, or frustrated with a story. Sometimes that's a part of it. Peter and MJ breaking up would be a great example: Peter giving up his happiness for a greater good is what superheroes are all about. And wether or not the situation warranted it, or if he had the right to monkey with MJ's happiness, or May's fate would be left to conjecture. (AND a natural outcropping of the events. Sometimes it's okay to foster tension in a story too.)

What worries me is that they'd do this and then negate it a few months later. THAT'S the tragedy of a perpetual story: heroic sacrifice is often for naught, and pathos is focus grouped right out of the picture.

Don C.

[Bo8a_Fett]

I don't have a problem with Spiderman being married...but exposing His secret Identity to the World, was a REALLY BIG mistake! That's the Genie that needs to be put back in the Bottle.

Tottaly agree here, this smacked of sensationalism for what was a drab multi comic event (civil war) and seemed a way of jumping on the whole "loved ones and secret identities" exposure that dc had been exploring with the death of sue dibney in identity crises.
Spidey being married was ok with me...I mean Reed and Sue Richards have been married for many years...Banner got married to Betty...Clark and Lois...Jay and Joan Garrick...to name a few, and this has never been a problem reguarding story content.

[thunderbolt]

The only problem I have with it is the way Marvel is doing it with the "do over" button. Have them get divorced, or kill her. something other than some cosmic mumbo jumbo with Mephisto.

[SlipperyLilSuckers]

Haven't seen any little Spideys running around yet. I'm a romantic, I liked it when Superman made Superman red and Superman blue and got to be with both the loves of his life.

[The Toyroom]

Haven't seen any little Spideys running around yet.

Peter and MJ had a daughter, but she was kidnapped by Norman Osborn who faked a stillborn pregnancy (if memory serves). Is this still in continuity?

[samurainoir]

>Did allowing Peter and Mary Jane to get married limit the kinds of stories that could be told?

Nope! All you'd really have to do is scratch off "girlfriend" from the old scripts and pencil in "wife." Six of one, half a dozen of another. As for the soap operatics: look at the average sitcom. You have married couples AND the usual misunderstandings, kerfluffles and hangups. Just takes a little tweaking.

I'm not sure if that is necessarily the case in those old scripts. "Girlfriend" has a much different level of commitment in terms of how it fits into traditional superhero morality compared to "wife".

Pre Marriage, Peter had at least a half dozen girlfriends in various forms that he was torn between. Particularly whenever it came to the secret identity versus standing her up for a date. You can't keep a secret identity from you wife.

Then there was the whole which girl should he choose scenarios. For Peter to choose between Gwen whom he supposedly loved best and MJ, it wouldn't have worked if he was married to either. It's out of character for Peter to have an affair.

Should he let Harry date MJ? Not really do-able if he was married to MJ.

Sure, you can have MJ jealous that Peter is hanging out with his old girlfriend The Black Cat, but he will never cross that line.

The most interesting potential from the original Black Cat storyline was the fact that he could choose between MJ and someone who knew he was Spiderman and also could look out for herself as a fellow costumed adventurer with powers. Of course The Black Cat was clearly "wrong" for Peter from the start (given the fact that she loved "Spiderman" not Peter).

The same sort of scenario is what makes Ultimate Peter dating Ultimate Kitty Pryde kind of interesting.

[samurainoir]

Peter and MJ had a daughter, but she was kidnapped by Norman Osborn who faked a stillborn pregnancy (if memory serves). Is this still in continuity?

I think the current writers are choosing to conveniently ignore it.
Until some writer down the line decides they need to address it.

Although it does form the basis of the alternative "What if" future that Spidergirl lives in. Given the longevity and die hard attitude of Spidergirl and her fans, I'm sure leaving her dangling out there as the missing Baby May also leaves the possibility open of this being the 616 future.

[The Toyroom]

I wonder what happens to her if the reset button is hit and Peter and MJ never marry? It'll probably wipe her out of continuity.

[ctc]

>I'm not sure if that is necessarily the case in those old scripts. "Girlfriend" has a much different level of commitment in terms of how it fits into traditional superhero morality compared to "wife".

Yeah, but not neccessarily so in terms of script. "Significant other" usually breaks down to "support during my darkest hour" or "love triangle" or "designated hostage" or "source of befuddling misunderstanding," all of which can be written with spouses or dates. Of course, this is all pretty surface; but a lot of the time the story really doesn't go too much into things.

>Peter had at least a half dozen girlfriends in various forms that he was torn between.

....pretty good for a nerd....

>You can't keep a secret identity from you wife.

Well... he kept it from his aunt for HOW long? This sort of thing would fall into the "befuddling misunderstanding" thing. Ultimately you can do whatever you want with a story; although the skill of the writer would determine how credible it all came across as. This one would be tricky, but not overly so. (Essentiually you'd have to stretch a single occurence over more than one issue. If it happened every other comic the spouse would look pretty thick. Although it tool Lois HOW LONG to figger out Clark was Superman?!?! Those are damned good glasses....)

>It's out of character for Peter to have an affair.

True; but it might not be out of character for him to THINK about it. (Just like Homer Simpson.) And it doesn't have to become scandalous or banal either. (Just like Homer. Hmmmm.... notice you never see Homer Simpson and Spiderman together...)

>Sure, you can have MJ jealous that Peter is hanging out with his old girlfriend The Black Cat, but he will never cross that line.

....and you can do that married or dating. Happens on sitcoms all the time.

>The same sort of scenario is what makes Ultimate Peter dating Ultimate Kitty Pryde kind of interesting.

....buh....?

Don C.

[Bo8a_Fett]

(Just like Homer. Hmmmm.... notice you never see Homer Simpson and Spiderman together...)

I just sent a stream of tea over my keyboard...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA