Dave Sim's Glamourpuss - Alex Raymond and Milt Caniff

[samurainoir]

Anyone else been reading this?



I originally dismissed it at first glance as Sim parodying Women's fashion magazines, but take away those trappings and it's actually an intensive exploration into the minutia of the photo realist movements in comic strips. He fills out his examination of form with speculation around the give and take Alex Raymond and Milt Caniff shared around their respective styles over the years.

It's actually quite baffling... it's the kind of mish-mash that Sim did frequently within Cerebus, but without the umbrella of his Aardvark character it's almost as if Sim is actually hiding this content from the audience that would actually appreciate it.

[samurainoir]

Here Sim points out the moment where Raymond tries to explore Caniff's style...

[Brazoo]

I picked up the first few of these, and found it very perplexing. Interesting, but not exciting enough for me to keep up with I guess.

Some of the Following Cerebus books were fantastic - especially the Will Eisner tribute issue. The one where he interviews Neal Adams was both amazing, for all the nitty-gritty historical comic production stuff Adams went into - and fascinating because I knew Adams was off the deep end with his nutty scientific ideas but didn't quite know HOW far he'd gone.

[Brazoo]

I'm a big Cerebus fan, by the way. I stuck with that through the whole run - and still find it incredible for so many reasons. Were you a fan samurainoir?

[samurainoir]

Like so many others, I was a fan up until Reads. Dropped it like a hot potato, although I did return from time to time eventually reading Guys, Form and Void etc.

I've only recently gone back and just barely managed to get through all the most difficult stuff just before the end... Latter Days/Last Day. Less for the content itself, but the madness/genius and bravura of his form and format. I disagree with the man's opinions on so many levels, but I can't help but gaze in awe at his ability of expressing those ideas. The most Post Modern comics since Art Speigelman's RAW ended. It's no wonder that he's gone on to navel gaze on form and obsess about lines in the pages of Glamourpuss.

Given the obsessiveness and circular thinking of his Raymond/Caniff exploration, I found it best to read the 18 installments thus far in one go, and skim the Fashion Mag stuff.

Catching up on Following Cerebus and Cerebus Archives now as well. What led me here was the fascinating dialogue between him and Steve Bissette over at Bissette's blog a month or so ago.

[Brazoo]

Were you reading it monthly before "Reads"?

I'm one of those guys who gave up comics when he was 14 - and Cerebus is one of the main reasons I got back into it again. I saw Cerebus on the cover of Spawn #10 and bought it. It was one of those things where you see an image and it brings back all these memories from your childhood. I saw Cerebus and suddenly remembered seeing him in the independent section of The Silver Snail - to me it was the creepy adult comic section - they were all books that made no sense to me - collections of Will Eisner's "The Spirit" which freaked me out because of how racist Ebony looked.

Anyway - I picked up Spawn #10, because I was curious - and thought it was kind of interesting. Then I picked up Spawn #11 and realized the interesting part was Sim's contribution.

So, I got back into comics around 93, but I didn't catch up to the series until the first issue of "Guys", and I read it monthly after that.

Even though I read "Reads" after it had been out a while - I was just as shocked when I got to it because I never read anything about comics, and didn't have any friends who were into comics.

I actually found "Latter Days" the hardest to get through - especially reading it monthly, because you'd get Cerebus reinterpreting the Old Testament, and Sim doing it in the back - it was almost like punishment - but I couldn't stop reading it.

They way I see Cerebus is like this - you get this story about a strange character by a guy crazy enough to claim he's going to devote 30 years of his life to this one story, and then the story of the crazy comic creator slowly creeps it's way in and starts taking over. It's like a ouroboros actually - with Cerebus eating at Sim, and Sim eating at Cerebus.

I understand the criticism - and I understand the people who just find it distasteful because of Sim's opinions - but there's really nothing else like it.

[Brazoo]

I think another reason Glamourpuss puts me off a little is that it's SO damn ugly. How can a guy who can design and letter like Sim smear all those crappy computer fonts on every cover with horrible typesetting like that?

[torgospizza]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YwMmQbzUU5...600/NCS081.jpg

Al Williamson drew that, didn't he?

[samurainoir]

Al Williamson drew that, didn't he?

Nope. Basically Sim is painstakingly redrawing panels by Caniff, Raymond, Hal Foster and other cartoonists. Glamourpuss is a meditation (or masturbation) in line weight and placement.

[samurainoir]

I saw Cerebus and suddenly remembered seeing him in the independent section of The Silver Snail - to me it was the creepy adult comic section - they were all books that made no sense to me - collections of Will Eisner's "The Spirit" which freaked me out because of how racist Ebony looked.

That's really funny because I had the exact opposite reaction to that particular corner of the Silver Snail. Drew me in like a tractor beam and I remember having to go up on my tippy toes as a kid to reach those books on the top rack above the back issue bins.

Richard Corben's bazooka bodied Conan parodies, the neo-EC stuff by Bruce Jones, Moebius' trippy sci fi graphic novels (although it was his westerns that really rocked my world). Milo Manara, Ranxerox, Druillet, Serpieri, Epic Illustrated and Heavy Metal Magazine. Not to mention Steve Bissette's groundbreaking Taboo anthology. Mind-blowing visionaries that really rocked my world... particularly since cinema/tv at that time really wasn't able to do anything comparable (at least in the mainstream).

Then I discovered The Beguiling when it was a hole in the wall on Harbord street, and they were willing to sell underground comix to a kid like me.

But I Digress... I started reading Cerebus with the Swords of Cerebus collection, and it was okay... funny animal Conan parody. But I bought a copy of the very first High Society phone book from Dave Sim himself at a convention (a hefty twenty five dollar price tag at the time) and he had taken it up to a different level with his exploration/send-up of politics... and then managed to top that with the one-two punch of Church and State volumes one and two.

My thought is that if you compare Cerebus' exploration of religion for example in Church and State and then he Latter Days, he really had outgrown that Aardvark character a long time ago, but had committed to the 300 issues of what would be his life's work. At a certain point it seemed like he was simply shoe-horning Cerebus into his fictional/biographical explorations of Oscar Wilde and Hemingway.

You really have to admire how deft and skillful it was to do a Post Modern mash-up of Old Testament interpretation, the life and work of Woody Allan, AND multi-generations of Jewish cartoonists. Throw in the Aardvark, Sim's thinly veiled autobiographical content, and that is a ridiculous amount of spinning plates. This is immediately following his exploration in the creation of religious doctrine via a fictional yet biographically accurate Behind the Scenes career ascension of the Three Stooges, by way of a loving homage to Curly.

Of course everyone is generally so focussed on Sim, that they often forget Gerhards contributions... which Glamourpuss really puts into perspective.

[torgospizza]

Nope. Basically Sim is painstakingly redrawing panels by Caniff, Raymond, Hal Foster and other cartoonists. Glamourpuss is a meditation (or masturbation) in line weight and placement.

No kidding? I've always liked Sim and knew he could mimic others' styles deftly, but never knew he could draw that well. I'll try to check this out a bit more closely. Thanks for posting this--I'd never heard of it.

[Brazoo]

Samurainoir - did you read Cerebus monthly, or just the trades?

That's really funny because I had the exact opposite reaction to that particular corner of the Silver Snail. Drew me in like a tractor beam and I remember having to go up on my tippy toes as a kid to reach those books on the top rack above the back issue bins.

I went from MAD Magazine to pure Marvel zombie kid. When I was younger I remember standing next to my mom catching glimpses of sexy half-naked women in that indie section and it weirded me out and made me a little anxious, I clearly remember being freaked out by how racist Ebony was, and I think I just didn't get the idea of buying comics of characters that weren't famous.

There's this one panel of Robert Crumb as a kid holding the first MAD book he ever saw - and he's nervously sweating and thinking "I'm not ready for this!" - I think that was me back then too.

As I got a little older I was more curious about those indie books, but the closest I got was "Savage Sword of Conan" before I stopped collecting comics.

But I Digress... I started reading Cerebus with the Swords of Cerebus collection, and it was okay... funny animal Conan parody. But I bought a copy of the very first High Society phone book from Dave Sim himself at a convention (a hefty twenty five dollar price tag at the time) and he had taken it up to a different level with his exploration/send-up of politics... and then managed to top that with the one-two punch of Church and State volumes one and two.

I read High Society in my 20s and I was still pretty blown away. The idea of telling that kind of longer story with comics, with that many plot treads and ideas and characters was really exciting to me. Keep in mind, I hadn't read a lot of comics outside the one's I read as a kid at this point.

My thought is that if you compare Cerebus' exploration of religion for example in Church and State and then he Latter Days, he really had outgrown that Aardvark character a long time ago, but had committed to the 300 issues of what would be his life's work. At a certain point it seemed like he was simply shoe-horning Cerebus into his fictional/biographical explorations of Oscar Wilde and Hemingway.

You really have to admire how deft and skillful it was to do a Post Modern mash-up of Old Testament interpretation, the life and work of Woody Allan, AND multi-generations of Jewish cartoonists. Throw in the Aardvark, Sim's thinly veiled autobiographical content, and that is a ridiculous amount of spinning plates. This is immediately following his exploration in the creation of religious doctrine via a fictional yet biographically accurate Behind the Scenes career ascension of the Three Stooges, by way of a loving homage to Curly.

It's weird - I think on one hand he outgrew Cerebus, and I remember wondering if he had at certain parts while reading the story - but in a way I think it became the only story he could tell too. I mean, it's not like it seems he had a yearning desire to tell any other stories after Cerebus.

I appreciated "Latter Days" for the stuff you mentioned a lot more when I re-read it all at once in the trade.

Of course everyone is generally so focussed on Sim, that they often forget Gerhards contributions... which Glamourpuss really puts into perspective.

When Cerebus ended I contributed to a thread on the Comic Journal site about Cerebus defending it - most people on there were just dismissing it without reading it - I have no clue how Gerhard isn't considered more in that circle.