The Death of Batman

[jds1911a1]

Well, unless he falls into a Lazarus pit, he's got to die sometime. He's not going to go away, tho. He's supposed to be ending up a New God at least for a bit. Supposedly this was the plan for all the big guns at one point.

Gotta disagree Tbolt, in comics no one HAS to Die, get older, get married etc. Sometimes a character is killed to make a point or becuase the chracter's usefulness is over (HMM like Jason Todd in 1994) or sales are down and the character wont be useful for a guest appearance. The death of superman was bad enough (but the lesson DC learned from it was the marks will buy anything since the sales for reign of the supermen did so well) but as palitoy said this isn't 1993 when so many thought they were building a retirement fund with comics. Yes they aren't killing off Bruce Wayne but this might actually be worse they trivialized him. Now batman is just a costume. At least with silver and modern age green lantern there was a precedent for succession long before Hal was replaced.
This may be an issue of evolution of a character but I think it's a bad one. The Generations elsewhere was nice and in the original E2 continum the death of Bruce Wayne was a classic BUT each of these "universes" heroes grew old and died across the board. Maybe this will be another "fun little trip" down the lane of "it was all just a dream" when they realize the sales tanked and the ploy didn't work

[ctc]

>in comics no one HAS to Die, get older, get married etc.

True. A lot of times the serious life events for a mainstream character are equivocations with the audience: "Somethign BIG is happening; but will go away when the NEXT big thing happens!!!!"

>Yes they aren't killing off Bruce Wayne but this might actually be worse they trivialized him.

Again. The problem with being a long time fan is that eventually you've seen it all, and you KNOW the huge life altering event is temporary.

>Now batman is just a costume.

When you think of it; there's nothing inherently wrong with this story; except that we've already seen it, and we all know it's a temporary thing. But the hero stepping down and someone else taking his place is an interesting take. In some ways ANY superhero is just a costume (see "V for Vendetta") and as far as the folks of the setting are concerned ANYBODY could be under that mask. Doesn't invalidate the character. (Depending on how you do things.)

>At least with silver and modern age green lantern there was a precedent for succession long before Hal was replaced.

See? You can do ANYTHING in a story, and the audience will buy it, provided you build it up properly. I think the Batman thing reminds people of Knightfall too much; hence the recalcitrance. I think a lot of the advance press doesn't help either; since it breaks narrative with the audience.

>Maybe this will be another "fun little trip" down the lane of "it was all just a dream" when they realize the sales tanked and the ploy didn't work

It's not even a question of sales; Batman is EXTREMELY marketed, and in every other medium Bruce Wayne is Batman. So as a comic wirter you've got to deal with THAT: an audience that's expecting Bruce under the hood. Every issue is gonna need a retelling of the origin to keep it straight for new readers.

Don C.

[The Bat]

So now We're gonna have a Murdering Batman? Jason Todd believes Batman's methods aren't extreme enough...that killing the Criminal's, is the only way to make sure They don't come back! I'm sure that will help Batmans's reputation with the Gotham Police?

[Vortigern99]

I'm with The Bat on this. Batman is Bruce Wayne, period. He is not a generic mask and costume that can be passed down from generation to generation; he is a unique persona that begins and ends with the specific psyche and physiology of one man.

Of course this will be temporary. Of course Bruce will return and re-assume the mantle of the Bat, as he did after Knighfall and after Prodigal Son.

But that doesn't mean I have to be happy about the stories in between. Jason Todd is dead, and failing that (I'm still unclear on why he's alive again), he is a mere pretender... whose inclination to deal out death is the first and best indication that he does not have what it takes to be Batman.

[MIB41]

You've GOT to be kidding me. Kill Bruce Wayne? What is it with comics these days? In the 90's it was an obsession with clones, now it's killing off their alter egos? Gimmicky marketing to sale comics. That's all it is. This crap with Captain America is already wearing thin. People are tired of the deadend storylines designed to keep the comic going until they reintroduce Steve Rogers in time for the new movie. Give me a break. Bruce Wayne MUST remain Batman or the character will die off. Plain and simple. The "death" of Superman marketing template is obvious and getting very old. I guess when you look at it, they have to kill all of these characters and bring them back at least once in our life time. Of course look no further than poor Flash for the exception to that rule. How many times have they killed off the poor sap in that outfit? It's called a 'lack of imagination'. It's getting harder and harder to find good writers for comics. By the way, how the heck did they bring Jason Todd back to life?

[VintageMike]

You just know this won't stick. Now as a story arc (that will end with Bruce coming back) I actually see some fun things that could happne in the interim. The villians won't know it's someone new. So the additional fear created in the villian community if he killed even lowly henchmen would intresting to watch. Permanently? No. But as a story acr, I'm willing to check it out. As far as "Knightfall" they went too far over the top. I want to see how Morrison handles this.

[Vortigern99]

Yes, certainly fun can ensue from this concept, and I hate to be a buzzkill.... but DC has already gone that route twice, first with JP Valley and then with Dick Grayson in the 90s. How many times can we see Gotham's villains mistake the new Batman for the old Batman, only to realize that his methods have changed and that he is more ruthless than ever, blah blah blah? I agree, however, that with Knightfall they went too 'over the top'. Maybe this time they'll do it right...?

[mitchedwards]

Makes you wonder if the "new" batman will kill some major bad guys, Then to make amends the deity Bruce Wayne will fix the time line or some nonsense so none of it never happened.

[twilitezoner]

Makes you wonder if the "new" batman will kill some major bad guys, Then to make amends the deity Bruce Wayne will fix the time line or some nonsense so none of it never happened.

The question is, can they make us forget it ever happened?

[The Bat]

The question is, can they make us forget it ever happened?

I think They plan to do the same with Spiderman...make EVERBODY forget He ever exposed His true Identity.

[Vortigern99]

I have an idea; let's kill ALL the superheroes of both companies, replace them with homicidal psychopaths to feed the reading public's thirst for stories of mindless violence; then resurrect the heroes one by one after all their villains are dead. The heroes will then realize they are obsolete, as crime has been utterly eradicated, leaving them with the only option that makes sense: retirement in a nursing home for the geriatric super-hero!

[thunderbolt]

relax guys, now LITG's saying that Warner has put the kibosh on the death part. Ross is still doing a redesign, tho.

[Vortigern99]

Well, that's a little bit of good news, at any rate.

I love Ross as an illustrator -- I mean, really, he's probably the most gifted artist ever to work in comics -- but his sense of design and composition is not on par with his ability to convincingly render three dimensional objects and human anatomy. Let others design costumery and plan page lay-outs, and leave Ross to his awesome and photorealistic illustrations.

[ctc]

>I have an idea; let's kill ALL the superheroes of both companies, replace them with homicidal psychopaths to feed the reading public's thirst for stories of mindless violence;

Been done. In the 90's it was called Image Comics.

If anything; we've been getting AWAY from this sort of thing the last four or five years. Sure, we've got a lot of 14-year-old power fantasy violence yet; BUT we're also getting little sniglets of something different. DC put out a new Captain Carrot; and even in a story like "Identity Crisis" which was panned by many for being unheroic and needlessly brutal, a lot of the characters actually felt BAD about what they'd done. A few years earlier and Dr Light would have been pushed out an airlock.

Don C.

[mitchedwards]

I'm glad DC/Warner squashed this idea.