Watchmen's Rorschach to appear in "Countdown Arena"

[The Toyroom]

Yeah, gotta admit I don't care for this one bit...in a nutshell "Countdown Arena" is about Monarch gathering heroes from various multiple earths and having them battle each other to determine who'll be in his army against the Monitors.

Supposedly Rorschach will be facing off against Batman from Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" ....

WHY? I've always felt that Alan Moore's "Watchmen" stands up well on it's own (an understatement) and does not need to interact with other universes (besides Rorschach's harmless cameo in "Kingdom Come"). I can see why Alan Moore has had problems with DC in the past in regards to these characters when they do something like this.

It smells to me like an attempt to put Rorschach, probably the most popular of the Watchmen characters, back in the spotlight in time for the upcoming "Watchmen" movie. I hope we don't see spin-offs of the original series or movie adaptations timed to coincide with the premiere of the film.

Leave well enough alone DC! If someone is interested in these characters, point them to the original series...it's still in print after all these years anyway.

[jds1911a1]

well put. The elsewheres story lines should not cross into Dc's main universe. what next a generations cross over? Kingdom Come? or Golden age?

[Earth 2 Chris]

Countdown Arena is a fun idea, but I think Watchmen should be left alone.

This idea ranks up with that "Bruce Wayne dies and becomes a New God" bit that Rich Johnston has been writing about. I hope that one isn't true. I really do.

Chris

[namtab29]

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no...

rob!

[Airdave817]

I knew there was a reason I just couldn't follow Countdown. As much as I wanted to trust Paul Dini would do a better job than 52.

I don't want the Multiverse back.

I want to read all of the Elseworlds stories and know that they are self-contained stand-alone stories. That would be why they are called Elseworlds. There is a disclaimer right in the front of each one that says that they maybe shouldn't or couldn't happen.

I liked that the Justice Society preceded the Justice League in the same timeline and that eventually the Legion will succeed the League.

Damn that Earth-Two Graphic Novel! If not for the return of the Crime Syndicate, the world would be one!

[thunderbolt]

Well, that will make Alan Moore happy.

[The Toyroom]

I knew there was a reason I just couldn't follow Countdown. As much as I wanted to trust Paul Dini would do a better job than 52.

I don't want the Multiverse back.

I want to read all of the Elseworlds stories and know that they are self-contained stand-alone stories. That would be why they are called Elseworlds. There is a disclaimer right in the front of each one that says that they maybe shouldn't or couldn't happen.

Yeah "Countdown" is really sucking each and every week....it seems like now halfway through they're finally trying to get the ball rolling with the revelation that Darkseid is the one pulling all the strings (no duh!). Still sucks though. Even the villain origins in the back-up are getting crappy. Hopefully when this all finally gets to "Final Crisis" Grant Morrison can pick-up the pieces and make something coherent out of Dini's mess.

As far as the Multiverse, I'd like the original Multiverse back if they're going to bring one back...not the slapped together one we're seeing now, made up of mostly Elseworld earths. The thing about the Elseworld books is that most of them were one-shots. They went in, did the book, told the story that needed to be told and got out of it. That's it. Now they want to make whole universes out of these stories. Granted some of them used more exploration of the ideas than others (like Moench/Jones Vampire Batman series was a trilogy I believe and Alan Davis' The Nail was multi-parts) but for the most part, they were throwaway "What-If" ideas that probbaly can't sustain repeated viewings, so to speak.

And once again, including "Watchmen" in all of this is just plain DUMB! I can see "The Dark Knight Returns" Batman, for instance...after all he does have counterparts in the main DC Universe. But Watchmen was created purposely to stand alone...that's why Alan Moore never used the Charlton characters as originally planned. Dick Giordano didn't want them ruined so they wouldn't be usable again. The story told in "Watchmen" begins with issue #1 and ends with #12! NUFF SAID!

[jds1911a1]

I loved the precrisis multiverse. It's been 23 years I am over my heartbreak of losing earth 2 with a grown up dick grayson, and helena Wayne as the huntress, a grey haired Superman etc. of course the return of the JSA and espcially jay Garrick and Alan scott helped alot to ease my pain. Some of the things done since crisis have been really good. I loved the reboot Capt marvel especially as comic relief in JLI and Blue beetle with booster gold was a riot. I didn't really miss candor. Post Bryne Luthor grew on me. I grew to really like Kyle Rayner. I for one voted to Kill Jason Todd (and was annoyed he was brought back as red hood) and I like Tim drake. And I love post crisis Guy gardner
other stuff I really hated - braniac, rebooted hawkman and trying to reconcile the golden and silver ages into the modern age version, post Byrne Braniac UGHH. I won't even talk about Hal jordon and Emrald Twilight or the death and return to life of Ollie that went with it. I hated the whole azreal/ batman/bane story line

If they really want a multiverse back I am ok with that. DC just make up your mind. If trying to manage all these characters history is too much either turn the page make a new generational gap and this time let superman and batman age with their contemporaies (you know we can't kill bruce wayne like they killed Barry and killed HAL and brought him back to life). I am not counting on a new generation since they always want batman and superman current.
OR wipe the slate clean and restart (make 2008 like 1956). Allow the last characters from the golden age who have aged to truly retire or pass on or decide on a final version why they havent aged to 90 yet (most Mystery men were already at least mid 20's in the 40's) knowing that eventually you have to let them die too(I would hate to see them Kill Jay and Alan but I could learn to live with it too) and restuart with Bruce as batman, clark as superman, Diana as wonder woman, Grayson or Drake as robin (maybe just not a boy wonder robin), barbara gordon as batgirl, and pick the most popular flash (at this point I think Wally west's Flash is a better chouce since they have left barry Dead all this time or leave wally gone too and just make it Bart allen), I would assume Hal for GL since they resurected him showing how popular he still was but I coull live with Stewart or rayner too.

The fact that DC allows some creative teams to age up or kill off and replace a hero but not others makes the whole process disjointed

[Airdave817]

I could take (or leave) the Multiverse. If the Justice Society's career started with World War II and ended in 1951. I could take America vs. the Justice Society and Last Days of the JSA, because I really liked the stories themselves. Except for nostalgia, I could do without the '70's All-Star revival - they were good stories - and I liked them just as much as I liked the '90's Mike Parobeck revival and the James Robinson revival with Jack Knight as Starman. But, I think it's nuts to bring the grey-templed Kingdom Come Superman into the current JSA continuity. Give 'em a break - these characters have to be approaching a hundred years old!


I get that Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are more timeless characters. DC made the choice to keep them contemporary in the League, and wipe them from the history of the JSA. And sweep Robin and Hustress with them. That was a shame. I don't think The Huntress was ever as good after the Crisis as she was before. Maybe she should have been an Elseworlds character only - when you consider that there already was Bat-Girl (Betty Kane) - now Flamebird (Bette Kane) - and Barbara Gordon, Batgirl - now Oracle. Kinda the same thing with Power Girl and Supergirl. The Last Son of Krypton and a guy who works alone!


This is reaching Zero Hour goofiness.

"Continuity" be hanged, just tell me a good story!

[jds1911a1]

I could take (or leave) the Multiverse. If the Justice Society's career started with World War II and ended in 1951. I could take America vs. the Justice Society and Last Days of the JSA, because I really liked the stories themselves. Except for nostalgia, I could do without the '70's All-Star revival - they were good stories - and I liked them just as much as I liked the '90's Mike Parobeck revival and the James Robinson revival with Jack Knight as Starman. But, I think it's nuts to bring the grey-templed Kingdom Come Superman into the current JSA continuity. Give 'em a break - these characters have to be approaching a hundred years old!


I get that Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are more timeless characters. DC made the choice to keep them contemporary in the League, and wipe them from the history of the JSA. And sweep Robin and Hustress with them. That was a shame. I don't think The Huntress was ever as good after the Crisis as she was before. Maybe she should have been an Elseworlds character only - when you consider that there already was Bat-Girl (Betty Kane) - now Flamebird (Bette Kane) - and Barbara Gordon, Batgirl - now Oracle. Kinda the same thing with Power Girl and Supergirl. The Last Son of Krypton and a guy who works alone!


This is reaching Zero Hour goofiness.

"Continuity" be hanged, just tell me a good story!

if it sounds Like I want the grey haired superman instead of a younger one that isn't what I meant I was only using them as characters I had to get used to losing. Just like for 10 years I had to accept an evil murderer for HAL JORDON (i didn't care for that either). And I am not really saying batman and superman should get old DC will alwys keep them timeless they are the icons of their company. I just think DC needs to accept that some characters need to be Period peices. If you want to keep writing books with characters from the golden age set their stories in an older time frame. If DC would actually commit to a full reboot, rather than a retcon they could actually rewrite the entire history and make it fit while wrting period stories catered to todays readers (like a period movie will). Golden age heroes in 1 set of books (ala Roy Thomas All Star Squadron) covering the 30's to the 50's. Silver age in another (barry allen hal jordon, oliver queen GA, black canary of the 60's), bronze age-80's in a 3rd (wally west, guy gardner, rebooted Capt marvel etc) and modern age say 1990-now characters).
Some would cross eras as aging characters but at traditional comic booc reduced rates.
For instance a 60-70's silver age robin is boy Dick grayson with a 25-30 year old brice wayne, a 80-90's teen robin and the titans with a 30-35 year old bruce wayne, a modern robin 15-18 year old Tim drake 35-40 year old Bruce and nightwing in his later 20's. Not that it would be easy since you have to explain where heroes came from without superman or batman in the 30's but they've already done it a few times they can maybe do it right this time

others could use the already existing name holder changes to create a generational story lines (flash, green lantern, green arrow, starman, star spangled kid)

but it takes a reall commitment to not refer to events where the big 3 (wonder woman, superman batman) would have to have been there (In JSA this is much easier since they were usually bit players anyway in All star comics) but if this multi era approach is taken it can work. heck even the LSH could form using someone other than Superboy as an inspiration like the teen titans

[EMCE Hammer]

I know this is blasphemous, but I wouldn't mind some prequel Watchmen stuff if it were done well. I know that's a big 'if,' but maybe a Waid or a Robinson could pull it off.

[jds1911a1]

I know this is blasphemous, but I wouldn't mind some prequel Watchmen stuff if it were done well. I know that's a big 'if,' but maybe a Waid or a Robinson could pull it off.

Unless Alan Moore signed on I wouldn't buy it

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

Seems to me; even if you have a number of alternate universes they don't HAVE to interact with each other ALL THE TIME!

Don C.