So.... what DO you want?

[johnnystorm]

I forgot to mention an end to variant covers and umpteen series for every character that gets hot.

That's the one reason I've avoided all of the Dynamite Green Hornet stuff, even though I'm a fan of the character- there's just too much of it to buy it all so I bought none of it. Deadpool at Marvel right now is another- someday soon to suffer the overkill fate of The Punisher, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider of the early-90s.

[Surfsup]

I'd like to see fewer titles and for creators to be nutured to work on quality over quantity. The market is saturated at the moment, because of this writers and artists are overworked, and it gives lesser creators the opportunity to plug the gaps in the schedule. I can imagine there is also pressure from the boardroom to come up with more and more ridiculous gimmick events in order to sell titles. Pressure like that rarely breeds creativity.

There are successes (my opinion of course) that rise above the dredge, which is none short of miraculous! Jonathan Hickman's FF run, Robert Kirkman's Walking Dead, J. Michael Straczynski's Thor/Superman, Mike Carey's Unwritten and Bill Whillingham's Fables/House of Mystery. All these titles have great storytellers too, which seem to be in short supply. This is just a drop in the ocean though unfortunately, as long as the money keeps rolling in with the countless events and multi titles, then expect to see the same majority of s**t churned out again and again by the hacks.

[Bo8a_Fett]

Kirkman's 'walking Dead' and Eric powell's 'Goon' are just 2 examples of how comics should be...consistant art and writing that are quality too.

[The Toyroom]

I forgot to mention an end to variant covers and umpteen series for every character that gets hot.

That's the one reason I've avoided all of the Dynamite Green Hornet stuff, even though I'm a fan of the character- there's just too much of it to buy it all so I bought none of it.

Dynamite's whole philosophy seems to be overkill.....

[madmarva]

Anthony, I agree with you about Johns and Frank on Superman. As you stated JMS was a bust on Superman and Wonder Woman. Him doing original graphic novels to me was convenient excuse for him to back away from projects that were going belly up. Honestly, I've enjoyed the two fill-in issues on Superman as much as JMS'.

It's funny how JMS was supposed to save Superman and dictated that he not be used much outside of the one title he was writing, but halfway into the 12-issue arc, Superman is perhaps at his lowest ebb ever.

As much as I would dislike seeing Johns leave GL and Flash, Superman needs to be the company's priority. And Johns is DC's go-to guy. If not him then I'd go for Mark Waid or Dan Jurgens.

As for Batman, I have a feeling the Batman-franchise arc in the end will be used to show that there really is only one Batman and that it's Bruce Wayne. Could be mistaken, but I gotta believe that's where it's going. Once that arc is done, I'd like to see Paul Levitz take a stab at Batman with Paul Dini on Detective.

Johns and Ivan Reis should also be writing Justice League and Justice League needs to include the heavy hitters. They all don't have to be in each issue, but they need to be available. Honestly, the JLU TV show had a good plan, a core of heroes with every other hero in reserve when needed. Justice League should be the biggest book in the DC arsenal.

After he's done with the Avengers movie, get Joss Whedon to do a Wonder Woman arc. Not a revamp of the character, just a nice solid arc that would draw some attention to a character that needs it.

Peter Tomasi would take over Hal's Green Lantern book and maybe Dan Jurgens on the Flash.

As for Marvel, Iron Man and Captain America have been better than they have ever been to me.

Hickman's work on Fantastic Four has been excellent.

I'd rather have a more traditional Avengers team.

Spider-Man's just become tired to me.

X-Men is a line of comics unto itself that hasn't had much meaning to me since the late 1980s.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

Lots of interesting points. I still find it kinda odd that so many folks fall back to the old standbys, like bringing back old artist X, or old writer Y.... or returning the character to how they were back in Z.... It’d be more telling to find out WHY those particular folks made such an impression.... although conversations I’ve had to that end make me suspect that it’s more to do with changes in the READER than the artist, writer, character, whatever.

Price seems to be a big point. I kinda saw this one coming way back in the 80's. The independents charged a lot for their books ‘cos they had small audiences. It seemed to me like the “Big 2" felt they could go that route, and adding super-chocolatey paper and awesome wonder colour was them justifying higher prices. By the late 80's they’d boned themselves ‘cos the idea of “designer comics” had taken hold, and the big names knew they could hold out for more pay. So to keep these guys they HAD to up their prices.

>writers and artists are overworked, and it gives lesser creators the opportunity to plug the gaps in the schedule

Part of that is executive decision. There’s SO MUCH money involved, and so little audience that there’s a real reluctance to try something different. That’s why you see the same names so often: as writers, artists, characters used.... It’s also why you see so many older characters brought back. Even a little known name has more recognition than a new idea, so to the suits it’s automatically better. It creates a vicious circle, ‘cos when public interest wanes you don’t have anything to replace your old stuff with. Hence the collapse during the late 90's. Once you got tired of the Image style there was.... well, the Japanese stuff, but it’s all weird and the heads are really big.... or... um.... you could just suck it up and read the same old.

I worked at a comic shop during this time and it used to AMAZE me how many folks would buy books they HATED every month. Yet they wouldn’t stop, and they wouldn’t try something completely different. I STILL see it happening. There’s some kind of strange psychology happening that I can’t sort out. For example: On another site there was a guy who’d complain a blue-streak every month over the stuff he’d buy. So I suggested a few things to him, and he tried them. What bothered me is that he actually seemed to ENJOY the new stuff (including being surprised by the death of a character in one book affecting him so much, since he’d never read the book before) yet when I asked if he was gonna KEEP reading any of them he hummed and hawed, finally said “no,” and went right back to griping about Batman every few weeks.

There’s a kind of inertia to the fans, I suspect. I think it’s why so many people worry that comics are in decline, even though -as an industry- they’ve been doing BETTER the last ten years than they had in decades. If all you know is the “Big 2 and a half” then yeah, there’s been a decline. Sort of. Really; no matter WHAT you look for, there’s more of it readily available than ever. Even if what you desire is “the good ol’ days,” it’s there: reprints, compilations, digital archives....

>I forgot to mention an end to variant covers and umpteen series for every character that gets hot.

HAW! Yeah, definitely! But that’s more playing it safe. I really liked the IDW “Battle of the Planets” comic that came out a few years back, but I’m a reader- not a collector. The INSANE number of variant covers they put out makes it damnably difficult to tell which books are actually new ones, or different, or contain an actual story....

>I want an end to these endless multi cross over events such as crisis/civi/siege/skrull/bruce wayne return/52/countdown sagas.

Oh; HELL yeah! The biggest problem I find with these is that you KNOW nothing’s gonna come of it. The non-event mentality screws things up too ‘cos the regular books become filler between “world-changing events!” It’s more marketing than writing. (I find it kinda sad that Archie’s been flirting with this sort of thing recently.) Not that this sort of story is NEW; but the hyping of them is. (Imagine the year long ad campaign if “Crisis on 2 Earths” were written TODAY!)

>I want writers/artists to feel for the characters rather than just seeing it as a job

That’s another sticking point for me. It’s a holdover from the 90's, when the big names could make more money than a small nation’s GDP. People flocked to comics for the pay, whereas just a few years prior you HAD to do it for the love, ‘cos there really wasn’t much pay. (It made me angry to see the Image guys thumping their chests about how they wanted to do their OWN stuff, and had been held back by Marvel, and loved their characters.... and handed them off in what; the first YEAR?)

Don C.

[madmarva]

In this discussion and others, it's come up that some people buy comics they hate just out of habit.

And the obvious question is why would someone do that?

First of all, I don't really believe people are buying comics they "hate." A lot of times we use hyperbole to make points, but I don't think many people perpetually buy something they Hate.

I have bought books where a certain storyline or direction didn't suit my taste because No. 1 I hadn't read the story before I bought the book and No. 2 while I may not have particularly liked the story or the art, I did like the character or the concept.

I know many people buy comics based on the artist or writer. I do too, but the main reason I buy a comic on any long-term basis is because I like the character.

I'll give a character like Captain America the benefit of the doubt because he's always been one of my favorites. And I've read some terrible Captain America comics and I dropped the book for long period when Gruenwald was writing it because I just couldn't stand it. But my affinity for the character has always brought me back. I enjoyed Waid's run and Brubaker's run has been outstanding.

Now, while I enjoy Brubaker's work. If he were writing Daredevil, I probably wouldn't buy it because I've never really liked Daredevil. I did read Miller's run on the book, and it was the best super-hero comic of the time, but comics were so much cheaper back then. I didn't have to sacrifice buying the comics of the characters I preferred to DareDevil because I could afford to buy more books back then.

Now, Superman is a different story. He's my favorite character and as long as I'm buying comics I'll be buying Superman, unless the character just strays too far away from what I believe are his roots. And, yes, I've read some really mediocre Superman stories over the years, but I love the character. DC's probably printed a half dozen or more iterations of Superman's origin in the last decade and for the most part I've enjoyed them all. The only thing that sticks out that I've disliked is the Superman as a vegetarian deal in Mark Waid's Birthright.

While I dearly love the Lee/Kirby issues and Claremont/Cockrum/Byrne/Cockrum/Smith issues of X-Men, the title lost me in the early 1990s. I liked some of Morrison's run and Whedon's arcs, but the X-Men aren't my cup of tea anymore. And to my mind there hasn't been a decent Wolverine story written since the Miller/Claremont mini and the Claremont/Smith follow-up around X-Men 171 or so. I still like the character, but not enough to buy the series.

As for creators, I tend to really enjoy Geoff Johns' writing, but I probably wouldn't buy a Firestorm comic if he were writing because I don't really care for the character.

Similarly, John Byrne's always been one of my favorite artists, and when I'm in a comic shop I'll look through his Star Trek or Angel books, but I'm not fans of those characters in comics. Did enjoy both TV shows though. Same with Perez. If he's doing Titans or Wonder Woman or Superman or Justice League, Avengers, Fantatstic Four, it's a buy, but if he's doing that Crimson book or Sachs and Violens or Metal Men, I'll look it over, but it's probably not a purchase.

So for me, it's a mixed bag. I do follow certain creators, but it's really more about the characters.

And while I know there are many well written and well drawn comics out there that have nothing to do with super heroes, comics are super heroes to me. I'd rather read a novel for crime, mystery or suspence and had rather watch a movie for horror. Although Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing is probably my all-time favorite horror stories from any medium, but if he hadn't done the Justice League issues with Jason Woodrue, probably wouldn't have ever bought the book. His descriptions of the JLA remain some of the finest ever put on pulp.

[samurainoir]

Short of DC Comics producing action figures based around the wholesome Veggie Tales characters, like the Broccili head Green Lantern, they will not see one thin dime from me until they meet my following demands...

a) Batman returns to being a paunchy guy in an outfit that looks like Aunt Harriet made for him. "Wayne Tech" my ***.
b) stock street toughs begin wearing vests and sporting mohawks once more, and I must insist, in a NON IRONIC fashion.
c) Dick Grayson back in the little green speedos... I DON'T CARE IF HE'S AN ADULT
d) BAT-VegeMITE!
e) Bruce Wayne is regularly depicted as swimming around in his money stored in a giant vault, as all rich cartoon characters must do in order to signify his wealth.
f) mentally regress Jim Shooter to the age of thirteen utilizing the latest in contemporary hypno therapy techniques so that he can get back to churning out Legion of Superheroes story ideas. Allow him to sit on Dan Didio's lap while he's doing so (yes, I know Shooter is 6'11 and 200+ lbs).
g) Aquaman starts shaving on a regular basis again. I'm looking at you Brave and Bold animated TV show.
h) Spankings return to the Superman Family of titles on a regular basis. And not just Superman putting Lois in her place, I'm talking the true equal opportunity spankings. Robots Spanking Humans, Humans Spanking Aliens, Dogs Spanking Horses. Just like the Weisinger era.

i) the return of Utopian Lesbianism as the driving subtext of all appearances of Wonder Woman, just as her creator (a celebrated pop-psychiatrist) intended. Or putting Mike Deodato Jr back on art chores, whatever's easiest, y'know?

That is all. Make it so.

Just like the Comics Code Approved funny books of my tragically lost innocent youth.

[ctc]

>Spankings return to the Superman Family of titles on a regular basis. And not just Superman putting Lois in her place, I'm talking the true equal opportunity spankings. Robots Spanking Humans, Humans Spanking Aliens, Dogs Spanking Horses. Just like the Weisinger era
>the return of Utopian Lesbianism as the driving subtext of all appearances of Wonder Woman

I would be surprised if you COULDN'T find these things online.

>stock street toughs begin wearing vests and sporting mohawks once more, and I must insist, in a NON IRONIC fashion

Well.... we ARE entering into the 80's again....

Don C.

[palitoy]

To be honest, I just find that a lot of titles insulted me with needless gore and exploitation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no prude, my favourite book is Planetary and it can get rough but it's done for effect and has an effect because of that.

I found much of the DC books I was reading with their gargantuan bosums and heads getting ripped off just embarrassed me. I'm not a 14 year old nerd (anymore) I'm a grown man who has touched a booby before and now would like to be entertained. I don't need meaningless blood streams spurting everywhere, I don't want the silver age back either, just write a decent story and stop already with the over the top nonsense.

Crazy gore in the DCU is the new "Pow Bam Splat!" to me.

Can't speak for Marvel, left it in the 80s. Mutants never interested me.

[HardyGirl]

What I want...

1. I want the prices of comic books to be lowered...... seriously It's a comic book not a magazine. also change the freeking paper!!!! I hate slick books that again look like mini magazines....I like the smell of old comic books.

2. TEACH THE ARTIST TO DRAW WITHOUT PHOTO REFERENCE!!!!!!!! Dear God how many artist are drawing straight from photographs and photoshopping pics. FREEKING CHEATERS!!!!!
Comic book art is a craft that takes years to master. That means draw draw draw!!!!
Not Tracing PICS!!!! That's not art that's SWIPING!!!!!!
Plus drawing directly from pictures makes things look flat and shows for me that the artist has no imagination nor skill.

3.LEARN THE ART OF STORYTELLING!!!!!!! Artist should take classes in storytelling, Will Eisner has a wonderful book called Comics and Sequential art IT IS A MUST READ FOR ALL aspiring artist.
Drawing stiff POSES in multi panels not comic book story telling!!!!

4. INKERS should learn to ink properly! That means add weight to the line NOT ink like your using a marker!!!!! That means learning to go from light to dark learn feathering techniques. That means learning old school methods.
I cannot stand how I see so many new artist and have no weight to their art. Take away the color and it has nothing to it.... relying so much on the colorist to carry the art!!!!


5. Writers that PEE all over the characters they take over to write. writing BS continuity that makes no sense and then leaving the title a mess!!!

Really is it that hard for a writer to go back and take some time to see what came before him? it'd be nice if the writer has an idea where the character has come from before he takes him in a direction that will make sense!

6. NO FREEKING GIMMICK STORIES!!!!! No Kill Batman,Superman or whomever!!! that is LAME!!! and so unoriginal!!!
NO changing costumes to sell freeking toys!!! Spiderman,Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman have iconic costumes leave them alone!!
No blowing up or resetting the universe crap....only to ignore all that was written a short time later......

If it was good enough for my Grandfather and was good it enough for me. it should be good enough for my kids and their kids kids!!!

Amen! I want comics that look like they're drawn, not CGI on paper. And I really hated when I took my older kids to the comic book store having to censor what they bought. How about comics that everyone can enjoy? Some comic companies are starting to do this and release "kid-friendly" books, but you really have to hunt for them among all the inappropriate stuff. And I'm sure that prices would be cut down if A) they used newsprint and B) go back to drawing the ads instead of having photo shoots for them. The people in those ads have to be paid, and where does that money come from? Jacking up the price of a comic book! Remember when pocket change paid for a comic?

[MegoSteve]

I'd love more one and two issue stories. Seems to me that these days the majors are stretching out thin stories that could be told in an issue or two to graphic novel length so they can repackage them. To me, this strategy is short-sighted because what happens is that if a reader doesn't care for a story, they have more of an incentive to just drop the title altogether than they do to wait for 5 months until the story is wrapped up and something new starts. And once a fan drops a title, there's little reason to pick it back up again.

I'm going to have to disagree a little bit with Berto when he says he wants continuity in comics again. I think continuity has all but alienated a casual reader from ever picking up a monthly comic, because most normal people cannot figure out what the heck is going on. If you buy any random monthly on the stand, odds are you'll be in the middle of a story... that's well and good if the story and characters are simple and easy to follow, but for the most part, they just aren't. Some continuity is fine (like Superman should always be friends with Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane and he should always be from Krypton), but if you get too tied up in minutiae, that continuity can be a wall that keeps the casual fan away.

The other thing that ruined comics is the annual event crossovers. Every year, the majors seem to develop an overarching story that runs through the entire line. They're designed to get hardcore comics fans to try new titles, but the problem is: what happens if your regular readers don't like the story? And what does it do to a casual fan? I couldn't care less about Blackest Night, and now, as a DC comics reader, I'm stuck with these constant references to events I didn't follow and don't care to, so why am I buying books I don't understand?

For example, I'm a longtime Superman reader and I've barely bought any Superman titles for the last two or three years or so because of the New Krypton storyline that ran through all the Superman monthlies. So when that was over, I started reading a couple of the titles again, and now Action Comics is an extension of Blackest Night starring Lex Luthor, and Superman is just a mess with revolving creative teams. As a result, I'm no longer buying Superman comics, which is just as well because for $3 or less, I can buy just about any single Superman back issue from the past 35 years.

The other thing that's ruined comics for me is the revolving creative teams. I'd love to see a creative team stick to a book for 2 or 3 years or more, but it rarely seems to happen nowadays; maybe it's because the artists draw more slowly these days, but it makes no sense to me. That's part of the reason indie books like Walking Dead and Invincible are successful; they've had the same writer and artist for years.

[Werewolf]

To be honest, I just find that a lot of titles insulted me with needless gore and exploitation.

I think that sums up the state the comics industry pretty well. Needless gore and exploitation.


My thoughts

For starters, just to get it out of the way, I'm not asking for nor do I want a return to the silver age or the overt sexism and racism of the 30s-50s. Nor do I expect or need stories to personally appeal to me.

Too expensive. When kids can get a DVD for $5 to $10 and a Wii game for $20 a comic at $3 to $5 is not a good value.

Tone down the violence and gore. It's not shocking or edgy anymore. It's tiresome and ridiculous.

If you have to kill or maim a hero, fine, just stop making a media spectacle about it. Heroes and villains died and came back just fine for many years before Marvel and DC thought they needed to alert the media every freakin' time.

Enough with the reboots. Pick a continuity and stick with it.

Stop pandering to jaded twenty somethings. Comics as an art form and an industry will die if kids are not the main focus. I'm not saying there shouldn't be comics for adults. Of course not. Only that adults should not be the main demographic. Kids have to be the main drive. No more kids reading comics equals eventually no more comics.

Ease off the emo anti-heroes. Been done to death. Not fresh or creative anymore.

Stop with adding jackets and pouches to super hero costumes. Looked stupid even in the 90s.

If an artist is going to draw female characters be at least be somewhat familiar with actual female anatomy. For starters, breasts do not jut straight out directly beneath the collar bone and if a character has very large breasts, great, but keep in mind they are effected by gravity. Also, waists should be large enough to hold their internal organs. Lastly, women's backs are not perpetually arched.

Male superheroes should not look like bloated vein popping roid raging steroid nightmares about to burst. Batman and Superman should not look like the Hulk in tights. It's getting beyond stupid.

[samurainoir]

Don't get me wrong, I'm no prude, my favourite book is Planetary and it can get rough but it's done for effect and has an effect because of that.

[ctc]

>Crazy gore in the DCU is the new "Pow Bam Splat!" to me.

I KIND OF agree. I’ve got no problem with gratuitous gratuitousness (having grown up with Heavy Metal, et al) but the way Marvel, DC and sometimes Image handled that sort of thing always bothered me. It was always disingenuous; done in a way that made you feel they THEMSELVES were ashamed, and with more than a few hints of plausible deniability. Like they wanted to titillate the 14 year olds, but in a way that they could deny it to their parents. Even as a kid that sort of thing bothered me. (So.... Wolverine’s claws and the Punisher’s bullets leave oddly bloodless injuries?)

If you’re gonna do “mature” stuff either do it and accept the heat, or don’t bother!

>I'd love more one and two issue stories.

Yeah; that’s a good point too. Problem here is that “story arc” became THE buzzword for the nerdly arts back in the 90's and we haven’t shed it yet....

>I think continuity has all but alienated a casual reader

.... which is a problem of the whole “story arc” thing. First off; you CAN’T have a REAL continuity since stuff can’t actually change. So you get sort of a half-hearted thing that has nothing BUT minutia. It’s not really that important for a new reader to know, but the publisher wants it out there ‘cos it LOOKS like depth. (Sorta like the mayhem in the first point.) Knowing that Hero A was formerly Villain B who died during the Infinite Crisis of Secret Final Darkest Zero Day but was brought back to life when Hero C accidentally used the Cursed Toaster of Obscure 1940's Character D doesn’t actually matter for the story at hand! The characters are broad enough that you don’t HAVE to know ANY of this to follow the new story!

It’s sort of why superhero movies feel the need to do an origin every 3 films or so. They don’t want you to miss any of the back story that really doesn’t matter for the current adventure.

Don C.