Ledger in Batman 3?

[The Bat]

Yeah but no matter what you're still going to get the stupid Bat armor....which I just can't stand. Keaton was the only actor that needed that. All the other actors didn't.

DK armor suit was simply horrible.


I'll say it again Batman Dead End proved that you don't need that stupid rubber armor.....

[The Bat]

It CAN"T be done.

Watch Dead End again.... it's shot in such a way that angles, rain, dark,
motion, neck up shots etc etc are the ONLY ways for Batman to wear tights
in a "serious" movie. That's too many limits for a 2 hr.major release so it
ain't happenin.

As much as I enjoy "Dead End" as a Fan-Boy...I have to agree with you Hue.

[huedell]

As much as I enjoy "Dead End" as a Fan-Boy...I have to agree with you Hue.

Heck, I enjoy Dead End as a fanboy too... i also think that if Sandy had
control over a 2 hr. movie, he'd find a way to make the suit work...
but for WB to concede to showing the suit in that manner for a full length
movie that'd mean that the suit would take more of a backseat and I
don't think they'd go for it.

I think the closest thing you'd get would be a suit not armory or spandexy
as much as rubbery. Not "Keaton armor" rubbery, but with more "give"
in the material... add to that colors along the lines of Routh's
Supes outfit but instead of darker blues and reds... with the gray colors
as darkened/muted as possible along with black (of course)... and it
all might just work to both fanboys and WB's satisfaction.

[kingdom warrior]

It CAN"T be done.

Watch Dead End again.... it's shot in such a way that angles, rain, dark,
motion, neck up shots etc etc are the ONLY ways for Batman to wear tights
in a "serious" movie. That's too many limits for a 2 hr.major release so it
ain't happenin.

I think it can work especially with the computer tech that we have now. Look at how 300,Sin City,Sky Captain...etc. were shot.

Batman mostly Happens at night not during the day. we're not shooting the Adam west Batman who worked during the day.

That armor Batsuit actually has to be lit more so you can actually see it and the details of the suit if I'm not mistaken. lighting is everything in a movie....

I'd like to hear Sandy's take on it since he is a film maker and knows all about lighting and angles for a shot.....

[huedell]

I think it can work especially with the computer tech that we have now. Look at how 300,Sin City,Sky Captain...etc. were shot.

Batman mostly Happens at night not during the day. we're not shooting the Adam west Batman who worked during the day.

But that's my whole point.

No major studio wants to work for the SUIT.... they want the suit to work for THEM.

The spandex tights are UNUSABLE in a normally shot serious BATMAN movie....like, if you shot the Nolan/Burton movies with the suit used in
Dead End, it'd be a lot of Wayne scenes with brief flashes of the suit
in the BATMAN scenes, and a few more BATMAN head shots and
some rainy stuff thrown in scenes for good measure to obscure the
actual suit in any creative way possible...like Sandy did.

That armor Batsuit actually has to be lit more so you can actually see it and the details of the suit if I'm not mistaken. lighting is everything in a movie......

A LOT of things are "everything" in a movie (lighting, acting,
dialogue, story, direction, etc) , but the reality is that some things
have priority over others...satisfying the producers being a big one.

I'd like to hear Sandy's take on it since he is a film maker and knows all about lighting and angles for a shot.....

Whatever he'd say, I'm thinking he'd agree that he shot the DEAD END
suit (and the Bat-masked headshots) in a very specific way...and
same with the lighting/weather FX, etc.

What I'd be particulalry interested in hearing from Sandy opinion-wise,
is if he thought the suit used in DEAD END could be shot in a different
way to show off the suit more, as that's the only way WB would ever go
for having a suit like that... unless it wasn't a film where they wanted the
suit to be taken seriously, of course.

[MIB41]

Heck, I enjoy Dead End as a fanboy too... i also think that if Sandy had
control over a 2 hr. movie, he'd find a way to make the suit work...
but for WB to concede to showing the suit in that manner for a full length
movie that'd mean that the suit would take more of a backseat and I
don't think they'd go for it.

I think the closest thing you'd get would be a suit not armory or spandexy
as much as rubbery. Not "Keaton armor" rubbery, but with more "give"
in the material... add to that colors along the lines of Routh's
Supes outfit but instead of darker blues and reds... with the gray colors
as darkened/muted as possible along with black (of course)... and it
all might just work to both fanboys and WB's satisfaction.

Honestly I don't think it has a thing to do with an artistic expression or limitations in production. What it comes down to is they want him to look like a big TOY so they can merchandise the crap out of it.

[kingdom warrior]

But that's my whole point.

No major studio wants to work for the SUIT.... they want the suit to work for THEM.

The spandex tights are UNUSABLE in a normally shot serious BATMAN movie....like, if you shot the Nolan/Burton movies with the suit used in
Dead End, it'd be a lot of Wayne scenes with brief flashes of the suit
in the BATMAN scenes, and a few more BATMAN head shots and
some rainy stuff thrown in scenes for good measure to obscure the
actual suit in any creative way possible...like Sandy did.


Whatever he'd say, I'm thinking he'd agree that he shot the DEAD END
suit (and the Bat-masked headshots) in a very specific way...and
same with the lighting/weather FX, etc.

What I'd be particulalry interested in hearing from Sandy opinion-wise,
is if he thought the suit used in DEAD END could be shot in a different
way to show off the suit more, as that's the only way WB would ever go
for having a suit like that... unless it wasn't a film where they wanted the
suit to be taken seriously, of course.

One of my biggest complaints in the first movie(Begins) is that every time Batman fought you hardly saw him. Yeah ok he's moving quickly but I paid to
See the Dark night not a blur.

Sandy's movie you can clearly see Batman in the grey suit lit accordingly to the scene. it is the closest thing to the comic I ever saw. my brain instantly said that IS Batman!

When the new Batman came I said please abandon that stupid armor at least for the first movie.....but NO. they went to that silly concept that Batman needs protection, making him kinda Supermanish.

We as comic book fans know if Batman truly existed he'd be an Urban myth because no one except criminals would ever see him. he works in the shadows. I can except a kevlar concept but not that stupid rubber make believe armor crap.

As I sat there watching the Dark knight I just remember saying if it wasn't for the mask I wouldn't recognize that Batman.

I understand that the studio wants that garbage because of the toy tie ins and what ever the execs think they know about Batman.

I just don't like it......

[kingdom warrior]

Honestly I don't think it has a thing to do with an artistic expression or limitations in production. What it comes down to is they want him to look like a big TOY so they can merchandise the crap out of it.

ding ding ding we have a winner!! I 100% agree!!

[huedell]

Honestly I don't think it has a thing to do with an artistic expression or limitations in production. What it comes down to is they want him to look like a big TOY so they can merchandise the crap out of it.

ding ding ding we have a winner!! I 100% agree!!

But that makes absolutely no sense.

They still can make a toy out of a gray armorless suit....they've done that
for years... heck, they did it with ORANGE armorless suits.

I 100% agree w/you both in ONE respect...they want TOYS....
that's one reason why they would despise shooting the suit obscured so much ala Dead End, as shooting it that way takes focus away from the
"Hey, Batman wears a cool suit" factor.

[kingdom warrior]

But that makes absolutely no sense.

They still can make a toy out of a gray armorless suit....they've done that
for years... heck, they did it with ORANGE armorless suits.

I 100% agree w/you both in ONE respect...they want TOYS....
that's one reason why they would despise shooting the suit obscured so much ala Dead End.

Wasn't that the reason Kilmer didn't give two squats about Batman forever because he was told it was all about the toys???

But the armorless toys are based on the comic.....not on the movies.

As soon as Sandy Had his Batman Dead End mego like head for sale I jumped at the chance to own one. That's how much I wanted to own his version of Batman.

[huedell]

One of my biggest complaints in the first movie(Begins) is that every time Batman fought you hardly saw him. Yeah ok he's moving quickly but I paid to
See the Dark night not a blur.

When the new Batman came I said please abandon that stupid armor at least for the first movie.....but NO. they went to that silly concept that Batman needs protection, making him kinda Supermanish.

We as comic book fans know if Batman truly existed he'd be an Urban myth because no one except criminals would ever see him. he works in the shadows. I can except a kevlar concept but not that stupid rubber make believe armor crap.

As I sat there watching the Dark knight I just remember saying if it wasn't for the mask I wouldn't recognize that Batman.

I understand that the studio wants that garbage because of the toy tie ins and what ever the execs think they know about Batman.

I just don't like it......

In the BEGINS movie his "flash" parts were interesting....however, I do
remember seeing him in other ways too. I thought they made smart
choices in that respect.

As far as Batman need ing armor making him like Supes... I guess
what you're saying is he shouldn't need armor because he's
so fast and undercover, he never gets hit? Okay, but as you pointed out,
WB ain't gonna go for a BATMAN like that, especially when you have
scenarios with audiences like having guys that are
actual BATMAN comicfans like yourself complaining about
the "flash" parts in BEGINS.

Sandy's movie you can clearly see Batman in the grey suit lit accordingly to the scene. it is the closest thing to the comic I ever saw. my brain instantly said that IS Batman!

If the studios could rationalize taking that approach, (and that's
a BIG "if") then they might succeed in making more comicbook fans
happy, but the studios real goal is to make world audiences happy/sell toys/sell merch too... and I think this thread discussion is just one more
piece in the solidifying of the theory that those two entities are going
to be mutually exclusive in the case of live-action BATMAN movies.

[huedell]

Wasn't that the reason Kilmer didn't give two squats about Batman forever because he was told it was all about the toys???

But the armorless toys are based on the comic.....not on the movies.

Yes, but I thought your point was that MIB had a point in saying that the
studios/WB made the suit all black bat armor because they wanted to sell
toys... and my point was that they were selling toys that resembled
Sandy's suit for years anyway (gray suit, no armory edges)....so how
would that affect their design choice for BEGINS/TDK suit?

[kingdom warrior]

Yes, but I thought your point was that MIB had a point in saying that the
studios/WB made the suit all black bat armor because they wanted to sell
toys... and my point was that they were selling toys that resembled
Sandy's suit for years anyway (gray suit, no armory edges)....so how
would that affect their design choice for BEGINS/TDK suit?

The studios want to make toys regardless. I find it funny that this version of Batman is aimed at kids that actually may have never even seen the two movies.

I know that the Bat armor was what the studio wanted before Keaton was even cast. For many reasons. I personally thought for stunt reasons so you couldn't tell the difference between the main actor and the stunt people.

As it turned out it could hide a less than buffed actor like Keaton.

Also if the actor changed the armor would stay the same.
So when you made the toy you really didn't need a likeness to the actor. the armor sold it to kids. that's why you had all those stupid Batman variations that were not in the movie.