Possible way of making comics cheaper...

[Blue Meanie]

I, like a lot of other readers/collectors here, are probably very frustrated with the price of Comic Books. I think the average price of a comic these days is $3.99. Here's a possible solution on how to bring the price down...and it's one that's been brought up for years...use cheaper paper. The paper is what has brought the prices to what they are now. Starting with Baxter paper then Mando paper and now I have no idea what they call the paper they are using today. Now I'm not saying go back to newsprint paper...but maybe going to the paper that is used in the comics that came with Marvel Legends. I was looking at the Hulk number 1 and the Dr. Strange books that came in the Galactus set...it looks like the old baxter paper but much brighter and about half the thickness. It can't be as expensive as the paper they are using on the comic books today. Probably cut the price of the book in half. I can live with a $2.00 comic...but it may be time real soon to stop buying the books that are coming out new these days. I've already gone the route of NOT buying any mini-series anymore because 2 weeks after the series is done a Trade or Hardcover comes out...and I can get those at the Cons for half cover price. I think the only mini series I am getting these days is the Neal Adams Batman book...and that actual is worth the money. So Marvel or DC, if you are out there reading this board/forum, what do ya say?

[samurainoir]

This is where we separate the collectors from the readers, but the average price for the digital version is about half the print version.

I loves me my floppy old school comics, and prefer paper to reading on the screen, but for the sake of space and the fact that it's gotten easier to read comics on screens in various ways makes me lean towards a more compact and easily accessible comics collection in the future.

I'm not so sure about the lighter quality paper idea... I think there were certain DC titles that went this route about a decade ago. I'm one of those heathens that reads comics while eating lunch or on the subway and I remember the covers to my Flash issues would always tear if I sneezed on them funny.

[Captain]

Normally, you would be right...but this isnt a normal world anymore. I recently did price checks on comic book printing. Its actually cheaper to do the run on the gloss paper because the gloss paper comes in the proper sizing for comic book size printing, and can be done on smaller machines. Newsprint type paper comes in large (LARGE) rolls for printing newspapers only. If you want smaller sized paper of this grade it has to be custom ordered from China of all places. When I inquired into those costs, I found it would have actually tripled the cost of the books!!?

If you printed the books in China it might drop your costs, but I didnt want to go that route, nor did the company I was working with.

Same difference with making the books smaller (ie-digest sized) Its not cheaper, and depending on the source you are printing from (digital versus photo, etc.) can end up costing even more due to formatting.

The only way I've found to bring down the prices, was to print in higher runs...but then you need somebody to buy those extra copies, and the market just isnt big enough anymore for that. Although, if the prices dropped down to say 2 bucks a book...some of the market might return!?

[Blue Meanie]

Normally, you would be right...but this isnt a normal world anymore. I recently did price checks on comic book printing. Its actually cheaper to do the run on the gloss paper because the gloss paper comes in the proper sizing for comic book size printing, and can be done on smaller machines. Newsprint type paper comes in large (LARGE) rolls for printing newspapers only. If you want smaller sized paper of this grade it has to be custom ordered from China of all places. When I inquired into those costs, I found it would have actually tripled the cost of the books!!?

If you printed the books in China it might drop your costs, but I didnt want to go that route, nor did the company I was working with.

Same difference with making the books smaller (ie-digest sized) Its not cheaper, and depending on the source you are printing from (digital versus photo, etc.) can end up costing even more due to formatting.

The only way I've found to bring down the prices, was to print in higher runs...but then you need somebody to buy those extra copies, and the market just isnt big enough anymore for that. Although, if the prices dropped down to say 2 bucks a book...some of the market might return!?

So much for my idea

Man, I've been out of printing for about 5 years and the world has gone to hell

When I was in printing it would have been so much easier to go to a 40" X 60" plate and get maybe 5 - 6 titles per color process plate...so essentially if you did a press run of 1000 books...you'd actually end up with a total of 5000 - 6000 books. Now with Digital press' you can only do 1 book at a time...that just sucks.

One of the companies we handled used to make box art for cosmetics and they would get literally 20 different boxes on one 40 X 60 plate.

Maybe you can find someone that does it the old style with actual printing plates instead of direct to press.

[saildog]

Along these lines, I haven't seen anyone comment on the recent paper change in the DC Kids line and the corresponding price increase on those titles.

[VintageMike]

If not the paper I'm sure they would have found another reason to raise prices. I've haven't stopped buying new stuff but I stick to a budget. I pick the stuff I want to read thye most first and anything beyond that it's left until next week if there's any money left over and so forth. The people I really feel bad for are shop owners. The last round of price increases made people cut back enough that it finally put a shop out of business that been open over 30 yrs. The whole thing is flawed. The companies think they'll milk the diehards to make up lost revenue and instead have people dropping titles or getting out of new book buying all together.

[johnmiic]

I don't buy based on character or writer these days-I mostly buy depending on the artists, ( exceptionms would be Hellboy, Jack Staff and Nexus). Most stories suck and most comics today aren't worth anywhere near what they're charging. All continuity can be thrown out the window at a moments notice if MJ Straczinsky or some other fool decides the wind blows in the right direction that day. There's no point in getting involved anymore.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

There are TONS of ways to make cheaper comics; but the crowd you're thinking of wouldn't go for any of them. Superhero fans have been spoiled by the 80's hyping of super-gloss paper, fulll colour printing and designer brands. Everyone ELSE has done perfectly fine with black and white, newsprint (albiet higher grade newsprint) squarebound and print on demand.

....not that these are PERFECT; but it's hard to shell out $5 for a DC comic with 20-24 pages of story when I can get a downloadable equivalent, sans ads for fifty cents; or 300 pages of B&W for $4.99. If you're strictly a reader, any of these should do.

Don C.

[Captain]

So much for my idea

Man, I've been out of printing for about 5 years and the world has gone to hell

When I was in printing it would have been so much easier to go to a 40" X 60" plate and get maybe 5 - 6 titles per color process plate...so essentially if you did a press run of 1000 books...you'd actually end up with a total of 5000 - 6000 books. Now with Digital press' you can only do 1 book at a time...that just sucks.

One of the companies we handled used to make box art for cosmetics and they would get literally 20 different boxes on one 40 X 60 plate.

Maybe you can find someone that does it the old style with actual printing plates instead of direct to press.

I've actually been looking for just that, but they seem to be few and far between these days. Quebecor Printing probably still has one somewhere, but they only deal with huge accounts (they print DC, Marvel, and Archie...possibly more?) these days.

[samurainoir]

Actually, here's a way to make cheaper comics... they did it with the DC and Marvel free comic book day books the past two years. They cut off an inch on either side and made smaller comics.

[BOTZWANA]

Then how is it that Marvel and DC can make Essentials and Showcase Presents volumes using the newsprint paper if it triples the cost as you say?

[Captain]

Actually, thats one of the reasons why I believe Quebecor has an old style press. Otherwise, I'm not sure? The main reason newsprint is more expensive is due to the handling necessary. Most printers (well all I've come across) only carry newsprint in huge sheets for things like flyers and newspapers. For comics, there is apparently (again, so the printers say..I dont know what voodoo they do back in the pressing rooms?) a lot of handling required to cut the pages to size, stuff like that. In the old days, they carried newsprint in different sizes, which made the difference. Now, they carry the glossy stuff in anything you want, and newsprint is on the way out --except for China, where they still use all shapes and sizes.

I'm sure theres some kind of economy of scale behind it? Actually, thinking about it, that could be a huge factor. In the old days when comics printed sometimes millions of one issue, the old newsprint way may have been cost effective...but now, when even the big guys put out less than a hundred thousand copies per issue..???

(for what its worth, I've been told that the actual run time --I believe it was on a digital webbing printer-- for 1000 issues on the gloss paper was mere minutes.--Quick stuff!)

I only know for sure what I found out when looking into the matter for my projects. I put out promotional items like comic books for outfits like the Calgary stampede, and private business'. I also work with two comic book publishers from the US in the licensing and marketing arenas. Finding cheaper ways to put out our products is vital these days, and we constantly approach printers looking for cheaper ways to get things done. My last quote from Sundog, a Calgary based printer, ran at approximately 3 bucks a piece/thousand units on the glossy. On newsprint it would have run just under 9 dollars a piece. Just thinking about it now, if a person was willing to buy a newspaper sized comic..like DC's Wednesdays comic thing...No staples, or proper cover, etc.....Maybe something could be done in that vein? You guys think that would fly with collectors?

Another cost factor here is Diamond themselves. A lot of people dont seem to know this, but Diamond actually dictates how publishers...well independents anyway...print their books, and in a lot of cases, what they print. For example, with one of the publishers I work with, Diamond looked at the volume of books sold, and factored in what they (Diamond) need to make off of each issue carried per year. They give these numbers to the publisher who then needs to figure their own costs in on top of this. The procedure was started because Diamond wants to drop the huge number of titles and publishers they carry....IE, they dont want the small outfits anymore...no volume...no profit. In the case of the company I refer to, they had to switch their format to large 60 and 80 page volumes, now sold bi-monthly or quarterly, and to meet Diamonds minimum profit lines, the retail price went up to 29.95 per issue. In the end, they lost sales volume, but more than made up for it by the poor fans who simply had to dig deeper to keep reading their favorite books.It was the only way to meet Diamonds strict numbers...You dont meet them...you get dropped. Its really a pain that diamond has such a monopoly...such a strengelhold...on the direct industry, but it does. This is why so many independents either disappeared, or dropped to maybe one or two irregularily published titles.

That said, if anyone does know of a printer that will do cheap runs using newsprint...heck...on toilet paper..whatever...I would like to know.

[ctc]

>Maybe something could be done in that vein?

Hmmmm.... I've putzed around with that sort of thing myself. I think nowadays there's an audience out there more interested in reading comics than the nuts and bolts; so it'd definitely be possible to try something different. (I mentioned newsprint 'cos it USED to be cheap.) Distribution is the problem; but you can do that online. I know a few guys who do web comics and small time publishing; as well as other online bits. You probably won't reach big numbers.... at least not for a while; but it'd get the stuff out there. And it means not having to deal with a distributor who pretty much hates you.

>You guys think that would fly with collectors?

Nope. But it sounds like you're actually looking into stuff that's meant to be READ; so who cares? If it cataches on, the collectors will catch up. (And the speculators will ruin it, but you can't do anything about that one.)

>Maybe you can find someone that does it the old style with actual printing plates instead of direct to press.

Nowadays you could simulate any old-school look and still take advantage of digital printing.

Don C.

[VintageMike]

Then how is it that Marvel and DC can make Essentials and Showcase Presents volumes using the newsprint paper if it triples the cost as you say?

Because they are not in black and white not color.

[ctc]

>Then how is it that Marvel and DC can make Essentials and Showcase Presents volumes using the newsprint paper if it triples the cost as you say?

There's a lot of factors with supply. It's possible Marvel and DC still have some connections or sweet deals from the days when they printed on newsprint. Or there's a regional producer that sells it cheaper, or a numbers bonus. It's one of the reasons flexibility is a good thing these days; things change quickly.

Don C.