Must Read!! Modern superheroes called a bad influence on kids.

[boynightwing]

Wasn't Speedy doing Heroin in like the 70's? Around that same time, Superfriends was on TV. There is stuff for kids, and stuff for adults. I think we're living in a really good time for comics and cartoons. Let your kids watch Brave and the Bold, but don't let them watch Under the Hood. Its all about informed decisions based on what your kids can handle.

[enyawd72]

There have been some interesting points made on both sides, but as a whole, I think superheroes have been on a long slide into negative territory for quite some time.

I realize that extreme violence has been around for 20+ years, but that doesn't make it right. I was pretty much in shock when I first read The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight Returns 20 years ago. I think they crossed a line that shouldn't have been crossed, IMO. Yes, there was violence and drug stories in the 70's, but their intent was to show kids the dangers of drugs and violence. Not to glamorize it.

I'm not just talking about comics either, but ALL mediums. The same kids who watch Iron Man Armored Adventures will watch the Iron Man movies. Look at RDJr.'s portrayal of Iron Man. He's a swaggering smart mouth drunken womanizer, and his behavior is glamorized. Is this Iron Man a good role model for a kid to aspire to? Hardly. Demon In a Bottle is one of my favorite IM stories from the comics. It portrayed alcoholism as something BAD, and Tony Stark's struggle to overcome it. In the movie, they use his alcoholism for comedy relief by having him dance with strippers and pee in his armor.

All I'm saying is that these guys are supposed to be heroes that you can look up to, and I don't see that anymore.
Super Heroes used to be fun, bright, colorful escapist fantasy...they were almost magical. Now they're dark, gritty, violent, ugly mirrors of reality, and the magic is gone.

[samurainoir]

In the movie, they use his alcoholism for comedy relief by having him dance with strippers and pee in his armor.

Yeah! Alcoholism was never used for comedy in the seventies.

[enyawd72]

Yeah! Alcoholism was never used for comedy in the seventies.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c63/Muhulmahay/andy5jpg.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6NariaEViv...ndy+Capp+3.jpg

No need to be a smartass. If you don't agree, that's fine.

And unless I'm mistaken, Andy Capp isn't a superhero.

[samurainoir]

No need to be a smartass. If you don't agree, that's fine.

Here's the thing straight up then, because I'm running out of ways to say this without resorting to smartassholism.

Those specific superhero comics you are referencing are obviously aimed at a more mature audience than the comics you read as a kid. As many have pointed out, this has been the reality of the situation for decades now since the direct market overtook the newsstands.

Every couple of months, someone makes the claim that there are no comics available for kids, which is really a completely false statement if you just look at the literal avalanche of material available now, particularly in book form, compared to when we were kids.

As I've tried to show in this thread, there are plenty of comics for kids and we know there are plenty of comics for adults, and they come in all kinds of shapes and sizes and genres, including Superheroes.

How old are your kids and have you really tried to find superhero comics appropriate to their ages or are you just being reactionary to aging of the core audience for Superhero comics?

I have a four and six year old neice and nephew who LOVE superheroes and I wouldn't dream of giving them an Ultimates title. They love Tiny Titans, and are starting to get into Shazam, and I imagine the next step is Marvel Age/Marvel Adventures and DC Adventures titles for them.

If you truly want them to read the comics you read as a kid, THEY ARE AVAILABLE TO YOUR KIDS AS COLLECTED SHOWCASE/ESSENTIALS PHONEBOOK EDITIONS AT A VERY REASONABLE PRICE. Whether or not your kids would be interested in them vs say Bionicle or Ben Ten or YuGiOh or Batman Brave and Bold comics is another issue entirely.

Again, I think we are sometimes too fixated on the Superheroes of our childhoods and blind to all the other wonderful stuff out there. Give them BONE! It's fantastic.

[The Toyroom]

Wasn't Speedy doing Heroin in like the 70's? Around that same time, Superfriends was on TV. There is stuff for kids, and stuff for adults. I think we're living in a really good time for comics and cartoons. Let your kids watch Brave and the Bold, but don't let them watch Under the Hood.

Yup! And Harry Osborn was popping pills in the 70s too...

Its all about informed decisions based on what your kids can handle.

Very well said! The stuff for kids IS out there...To borrow some words from Frederic Wertham himself (ironically): "For those who know how to look..."

[ctc]

>I think superheroes have been on a long slide into negative territory for quite some time.

Hmmmm.... It’s a difficult issue. I can’t help but feel that there’s an undercurrent of “comics SHOULD JUST be for kids” here. I always have problems with that since it’s been shown that you CAN do comics for an older crowd.... even superhero comics. (‘Cos it’s been done.) But should you....?

I think when you talk superheroes you’ve got a generational thing that goes on. Fans come in at a young age, read for a bit, get older, want suitable material so the publishers provide it, lose interest after a few years (I’d dispute how long) move on wherein a new younger crowd comes in. That’s why you had stuff like the “BIF! BAM!” Batman of the silver age followed by Damien Helstrom contemplating his mother’s virtue in the bronze age, followed by the wackiness of the late 70's Defenders, followed by the 80's “The Killing Joke.”

‘Course, it’s not always that clear cut; since you’ve got underpinings of all sorts of stories going on all the time. (Don’t forget: it was in the era of the Watchmen that Marvel launched STAR Comics.)

I really do believe it’s the readers, more than the books themselves, that cause this sense of decline. That’s why it’s so tough for people to articulate WHY they feel things are “worse” now than ever, especially when you can find examples of whatever “worse” is from earlier times: examples that the folks complaining seem okay with. (Such as the aforementioned Joker ALWAYS being a killer.)

>Its all about informed decisions based on what your kids can handle.

That’s part of it too. Not everything is meant for all audiences. Movies HAVE to appeal to a wide audience, so they’re gonna heavy it up a bit. You might think twice about letting your 6 year old “Brave and the Bold” fan watch “The Dark Knight.” You also have to accept that Batman has a lot of fans, and a few of them aren’t 6, so there’s gonna be stuff aimed at them too.

Don C.

[Bizarro Amy]

When a twelve year old can watch and understand the lyrics to the Boats and Hoes music video, I think the influence of Wolverine and Punisher are a bit overstated.

Good point here. I work with kids, and while many of them end up watching superhero and similar-themed movies, I can't say that any of them are actually influenced by that.

I've dabbled into some 70's stuff too ... , I think comics are as violent Now, as they were in the 70's..., the only thing that's changed, is the Graphic Nature of the Images, Because well, Comics are drawn with much more detail today, and coloring than the Books of Yester Year.

I think this definitely has something to do with it. Also, some characters have gotten less violent. While some people exaggerate just how anti-gun Batman actually is, he definitely uses them less in modern stories than in the past. I've read Golden Age Batman stories where he shoots criminals, and one where he ended up with a noose around a goon's neck and the guy was hanging from the Batplane.
As far as comics that are written for adults and unsuitable for kids, there's one reason and one reason only that these books are published. It's because adults buy them. They work for a living and don't have to rely on Mom and Dad for spending money. When comics were cheaper and readily available at the grocery store, corner news stand, etc, kids were much more likely to buy them. Now that most people need their own transportation to go to the comic store, adults are going to be the ones making the trip, and a lot of the kids who do get comics do so because their parents are fans too.
I believe that the number of adults reading comics(any genre) and variety of comic books is partially responsible for the push to keep kid friendly books available too. You have adults who read superhero comics as kids and want their own children to have the same experience. You have people like Sharry and myself who love comics and want to share them with the kids we work with. You have people who have never picked up a comic before because they assumed it was all kid stuff, then happen to pick up a graphic novel and love it. Then they start finding what else is out there and encourage others to read. All of those elements connect to one another.
So no, not all comics, even the superhero genre, are appropriate for kids. So what, there's plenty of heroes that are. To keep the comic book industry going, it has to adapt and that means including everyone's interests.