Captain America's Weird Tales?

[samurainoir]

Looks like Cap floundered arouna a bit after WW2 trying to find a new direction. I'm guessing this was to cash in on the success of EC's horror line?



Looks to be short lived as he soon found new purpose punching Commies instead of Nazis.


I'll assume these were the issues that were retconned into being a replacement Cap and Bucky? I believe the replacement Bucky eventually become Nomad?

[cjefferys]

Issues 74 and 75 (#75 didn't even feature an appearance of CA!) were published between late 1949 and early 1950, slightly before EC horror really caught on but at a time when superhero comics had greatly lost popularity (a lot of superhero titles were cancelled in 1949) and companies were probably scrambling to find success by trying different genres. After a four year break, CA issues 76-78 were published in 1954, a time when Marvel/Timely tried to resurrect several of their titles (eg. CA, Submariner, Human Torch) but after around three issues, none were very successful, so they were cancelled once again. The early to mid 1950's were a very bad time for superhero comics (as the story goes, only Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman were continuously published during that period).

[thunderbolt]

Those three or four issues of Cap, Subby and Torch would make for a nice TPB or Archive.

[The Toyroom]

"Captain America's Weird Tales" were published in Oct. '49 and Feb. '50. By comparision, EC's "Crypt of Terror" (forerunner to "Tales From the Crypt") was published in Apr. '50 with issue #17 (previously it had been "Crime Patrol" and the Crypt Keeper was introduced in issue #15 of that title). So the Cap issues happened to hit the newstand around the same time instead of being directly influenced by EC's (later) success in the horror comic industry.

[samurainoir]

"Captain America's Weird Tales" were published in Oct. '49 and Feb. '50. By comparision, EC's "Crypt of Terror" (forerunner to "Tales From the Crypt") was published in Apr. '50 with issue #17 (previously it had been "Crime Patrol" and the Crypt Keeper was introduced in issue #15 of that title). So the Cap issues happened to hit the newstand around the same time instead of being directly influenced by EC's (later) success in the horror comic industry.

Interesting! Thanks for that info. I'd always assumed EC was the "original", so I'm guessing there were other precursors and EC just did it the best?

[samurainoir]

Issues 74 and 75 (#75 didn't even feature an appearance of CA!) were published between late 1949 and early 1950, slightly before EC horror really caught on but at a time when superhero comics had greatly lost popularity (a lot of superhero titles were cancelled in 1949) and companies were probably scrambling to find success by trying different genres. After a four year break, CA issues 76-78 were published in 1954, a time when Marvel/Timely tried to resurrect several of their titles (eg. CA, Submariner, Human Torch) but after around three issues, none were very successful, so they were cancelled once again. The early to mid 1950's were a very bad time for superhero comics (as the story goes, only Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman were continuously published during that period).

I appreciate you filling me in on some Golden Age Comics Lore!

I didn't realize there was that gap in publishing when I found those issues online. Odd to think that there was ever space between issues of Captain America lasting years given the fact that he's been on the stands on an almos monthly basis for as long as I've been alive!

Odder still in this era of new #1's at every opportunity, that a company would continue the original numbering after a years long gap. I'm assuming it had something to do with distribution in the pre-collectors days of old when they were simply seen as disposible periodicals.

[The Toyroom]

I didn't realize there was that gap in publishing when I found those issues online. Odd to think that there was ever space between issues of Captain America lasting years given the fact that he's been on the stands on an almos monthly basis for as long as I've been alive!

Odder still in this era of new #1's at every opportunity, that a company would continue the original numbering after a years long gap. I'm assuming it had something to do with distribution in the pre-collectors days of old when they were simply seen as disposible periodicals.

I think what it was back then was a publisher had to file a new postal permit every time a #1 issue debuted. EC took great advantage of this and kept changing the title, but keeping the numbering on many of their issues in order to pay for a new permit with each title launched. Instead they just kept converting titles until they worked....

For example, the aformentioned "Tales From the Crypt" began as "International Comics" #1-5, "International Crime Patrol" #6, "Crime Patrol" #7-16, "Crypt of Terror" #17-19 and finally "Tales From the Crypt" #20-46.

"Haunt of Fear" began as "Fat and Slat" #1-4, followed by "Gunfighter" #5-14 and then became "Haunt of Fear" #15-17, after which numbering began with #4-28.

It's a wonder the EC staff could keep things straight!

[samurainoir]

I think what it was back then was a publisher had to file a new postal permit every time a #1 issue debuted. EC took great advantage of this and kept changing the title, but keeping the numbering on many of their issues in order to pay for a new permit with each title launched. Instead they just kept converting titles until they worked....

For example, the aformentioned "Tales From the Crypt" began as "International Comics" #1-5, "International Crime Patrol" #6, "Crime Patrol" #7-16, "Crypt of Terror" #17-19 and finally "Tales From the Crypt" #20-46.

"Haunt of Fear" began as "Fat and Slat" #1-4, followed by "Gunfighter" #5-14 and then became "Haunt of Fear" #15-17, after which numbering began with #4-28.

It's a wonder the EC staff could keep things straight!

I had heard about things like "Moongirl" morphing into "A Moon, A Girl, Romance", but that is certainly some juggling act!

I just had to google Fat and Slat....


Hard to believe that Mutt and Jeff lookin' thing morphed into Haunt of Fear!

Similar things happened during the early days of Marvel as well right? Which is why Captain America seems to jump from the numbering in the seventies or so to #100... Cap took over the numbering of some other title (was it Tales to Astonish or Suspense or something similar?). I seem to also recall that Hulk's solo title originally only lasted 6 or so issues and he also later took over the numbering of another title.

[The Toyroom]

I had heard about things like "Moongirl" morphing into "A Moon, A Girl, Romance", but that is certainly some juggling act!

Yup and it eventually became "Weird Fantasy" with #13 and I think that's the one that finally got the Post Office wise to EC's tactics.

Similar things happened during the early days of Marvel as well right? Which is why Captain America seems to jump from the numbering in the seventies or so to #100... Cap took over the numbering of some other title (was it Tales to Astonish or Suspense or something similar?). I seem to also recall that Hulk's solo title originally only lasted 6 or so issues and he also later took over the numbering of another title.

Yeah I always liked to think that Marvel's motives were different from EC's financial ones. More than likely they realized that super-heroes were on the rise again and it only made sense to convert the "Tales of..." titles to ones with super-hero sounding names. After all the "Tales of..." books were originally monster/mystery books and those were on the way out again. If Marvel had been operating under today's principles they would've jump-started these books with #1 numbering.

Instead "Tales of Suspense" became "Captain America" #100, "Tales to Astonish" became "Incredible Hulk" #102, "Journey Into Mystery" became "Thor" #126 and "Strange Tales" became "Doctor Strange" #169-183.

Interestingly though "Strange Tales" was relaunched in the 70s with #169 again, while Doc's book was relaunched with a new #1. "Thor" reverted back to the "Journey Into Mystery" numbering #503-521 back in the late 90s.

Makes an archivist's job very difficult...whew!

[Earth 2 Chris]

I'm thinking the first horror comic was from the mid 40s and was called "Eerie" (not to be confused with the later Warren mag). I think Avon (not the cosmetic company) published it. So there were horror books before Cap's Weird Tales and before the EC line.

The "Commie Smasher" stories were indeed the basis for the retcon replacement Cap who became the Nazi Grand Director, and James Monroe who became the second Nomad who had his own title in the early 90s.

Actually, any Golden Age Cap story after 1945 has to be one of the replacement Caps in Marvel continuity, since the original Cap and Bucky disappeared after stopping that robot drone plane thing of Zemo's.

Chris

[samurainoir]

Yup and it eventually became "Weird Fantasy" with #13 and I think that's the one that finally got the Post Office wise to EC's tactics.



Yeah I always liked to think that Marvel's motives were different from EC's financial ones. More than likely they realized that super-heroes were on the rise again and it only made sense to convert the "Tales of..." titles to ones with super-hero sounding names. After all the "Tales of..." books were originally monster/mystery books and those were on the way out again. If Marvel had been operating under today's principles they would've jump-started these books with #1 numbering.

Instead "Tales of Suspense" became "Captain America" #100, "Tales to Astonish" became "Incredible Hulk" #102, "Journey Into Mystery" became "Thor" #126 and "Strange Tales" became "Doctor Strange" #169-183.

Interestingly though "Strange Tales" was relaunched in the 70s with #169 again, while Doc's book was relaunched with a new #1. "Thor" reverted back to the "Journey Into Mystery" numbering #503-521 back in the late 90s.

Makes an archivist's job very difficult...whew!

That certainly explains a lot! I recall as a kid wondering why Thor had higher numbering than any of the other titles despite the fact that they had always claimed Fantastic Four came first.