This Wonder Woman costume thing and Spider-Man...

[enyawd72]

First off, gotta say I think the new WW outfit sucks.

That said, does anybody know why the ONLY total costume revamp in comics history that nobody seemed to mind was Spider-Man?

I hadn't even read all of Secret Wars, so knew nothing of it's origins, but I remember EXACTLY where and when I saw the cover of ASM #252 with the new black costume. I couldn't believe my eyes...I was in shock...and I loved it.
It was still Spider-Man to me...I couldn't get over how different it was, yet it felt as if it had always existed right along side the classic red and blue. It's like the design was so good, it was instantly timeless.

Anybody else feel this way?

[huedell]

Nobody minded it? They changed it back within a short time I think.

Granted a lot of people had an affection for it that it was unprecedented for
such a thing. So that's a big part of why VENOM had so much going for him,
but as far as I know, that outfit change for Spidey was pretty much
as temporary as other costume changes that didn't fit the bill.

[The Toyroom]

First off, gotta say I think the new WW outfit sucks.

That said, does anybody know why the ONLY total costume revamp in comics history that nobody seemed to mind was Spider-Man?

I hadn't even read all of Secret Wars, so knew nothing of it's origins, but I remember EXACTLY where and when I saw the cover of ASM #252 with the new black costume. I couldn't believe my eyes...I was in shock...and I loved it.
It was still Spider-Man to me...I couldn't get over how different it was, yet it felt as if it had always existed right along side the classic red and blue. It's like the design was so good, it was instantly timeless.

Anybody else feel this way?

The black costume was 1st introduced in Secret Wars #8 and debuted in the main Spider-Man book (Amazing) with #252. After discovering that the costume was an alien symbiote, Spider-Man used cloth versions of the black costume (alternating with the red & blue suit) until Amazing Spider-Man #300, shortly after Venom's debut. So that's 48 issues worth, which is roughly 4 years.

So I'd say, yeah, it was pretty successful as far as costume changes go.

[johnmiic]

I have also heard that the change in Spider-Man's costume in the 1980's was an attempt to disenfranchise Jack Kirby. MARVEL thought he was going to win the lawsuit and they wanted to try and reduce any profits he may have been awarded. Kirby designed the costume and character as noted by Stan Lee in his book Marvel Secret Origins.

[david_b]

Kirby designed it..?? I didn't know that.. I just assumed it was a Ditko or Lee thing..

Anywho, as for 'radical changes'..? Depends on what you mean.

Black Widow drastically changed costumes.., I won't even mention Wasp, Ironman stayed the basic style, just changed from solid gray to red/yellow to red/silver.

Falcon changed color schemes, but basically the same outfit.

david_b

[huedell]

The black costume was 1st introduced in Secret Wars #8 and debuted in the main Spider-Man book (Amazing) with #252. After discovering that the costume was an alien symbiote, Spider-Man used cloth versions of the black costume (alternating with the red & blue suit) until Amazing Spider-Man #300, shortly after Venom's debut. So that's 48 issues worth, which is roughly 4 years.

So I'd say, yeah, it was pretty successful as far as costume changes go.readers back then.

On one hand, 4 yrs. is longer than I thought...on the other they felt they had
to alternate, so I guess it wasn't "all" jiggy.

[The Toyroom]

That said, does anybody know why the ONLY total costume revamp in comics history that nobody seemed to mind was Spider-Man?

Thought about this a bit more...Because they didn't totally discard the original classic costume and used it in conjunction with the new black suit depending on the storyline that's probably why it was one of the more successful attempts.

What DC should have done if they wanted to alter WW's costume was present it as one of her many choices....similar to the multitude of costumes the Wasp has had over the years.....instead of making it replace the original swimsuit.

[jds1911a1]

Thought about this a bit more...Because they didn't totally discard the original classic costume and used it in conjunction with the new black suit depending on the storyline that's probably why it was one of the more successful attempts.

What DC should have done if they wanted to alter WW's costume was present it as one of her many choices....similar to the multitude of costumes the Wasp has had over the years.....instead of making it replace the original swimsuit.

I have to beleive part of marvel's reason for the alternating look was pure marketing. in the 80's marvel was reprinting classic spiderman stories in a couple of books (marvel tales, and I think Spectacular Spiderman), the video tape releases of the 80's sunbow and 67 stories on video, and periperhal merchandising (the same way the traditional batman costume, Hal Jordon and Barry allen's flash were never truly replace in dc merchandising)

[ctc]

>does anybody know why the ONLY total costume revamp in comics history that nobody seemed to mind was Spider-Man?

People lost their MINDS over the black costume! (I can remember a particularly scathing article from “Amazing Heroes” about it.) But heroes changed costumes before.... I think what happened was that “continuity” became a selling point for the supers in the 80's, so folks were hyper-aware of any changes. Plus; it happened on the cusp of the “no! Comics is relevant!!!” thing, and the change let a lot of pseudo-intellectuals throw words like “iconic” around.

Nowadays you’ve got so much instant communication that any change gets rated BEFORE it happens, and for the supers; most of their comic fans are older folks who freak at any change to their childhoods. (I’ve suspected ‘cos it makes them feel old and irrelevant.)

‘Course, the nerd rage isn’t always unjustified ‘cos you got so many publishers and artists monkeying with stuff so’s to make it more sellable. Which often screws up the storytelling value.

Don C.

[PNGwynne]

What DC should have done if they wanted to alter WW's costume was present it as one of her many choices....similar to the multitude of costumes the Wasp has had over the years.....instead of making it replace the original swimsuit.

Not a bad WW idea--I liked it on the TV show when she mixed it up. But there was always this awareness of her primary, ICONIC costume.

This Black Canary look is redundant-- Diana as a Grease wannabee.

[Cmonster]

All this nonsense has to do with marketing. Decisions like this are made by non-creative people. After that decision comes down the pipeline, it depends on what creative person has to actually implement those changes and make them happen. In the case of Spidey, it worked. The current WW one, certainly does not.

SC

[johnmiic]

[johnnystorm]

If I remember correctly, the Secret wars changes were originally going to impact the Marvel Universe in big ways. The initial plan was to have all the heroes disappear off to the war world at the end of one issue, then return with the changes at the start of the very next issue. Then the changed heroes would operate ongoing in the Marvel Universe, whilst the backstory played out in the secret Wars mini-series over the next year.

(Anyone remember that? In the old days when a 12 issue mini-series came out in the span of one whole actual year? Thank god for the speed brought along by modern technology and for how fast a series can be done today!)

I recall some of the proposed changes were new alien tech armor for Iron Man, Hulk was supposed to have an injured or damaged leg that prevented him from jumping, Wasp was killed off I think. Those changes were rapidly ignored by the various editors, almost immediatly if enacted at all. I think only the Spidey costume lasted, and the Thing was left behind in his own series spin-off which lasted awhile, and in FF the She-Hulk took his place.

You're probably correct that the Black costume Spidey was one of the only successful revamps. Arguably Iron Man fits in as a success too, as they've changed him many times, so much that it's become an expected part of the character so long as the red & yellow/gold color scheme is intact. Batman's gone from grey to black to grey again, and of course Superman got electric blue in the 90s, The new Captain America costume's been accepted pretty well, as has the Ultimate version.

[Bruce Banner]

I still love Secret Wars, and revisit it pretty regularly.
It's still great to see stuff like the introduction of the new Spider-Woman, the origin of Spidey's black costume, Colossus falling in love with Zsaji, and as a result ending his relationship with Kitty when he got home, The Thing opting to stay behind on Battleworld, etc.

Pretty cool for a series which was initially conceived simply to finalize an action figure deal with Mattel!

[madmarva]

When the Spidey costume change came there was no Internet — at least for the masses — so no immediate fan reaction like today. Heck, PCs were relatively new and certainly not commonplace.

It's so much easier today to get disgusted with something and post it online. It took more effort back in the day write an actual letter and mail it. Most of the time, if you sent a letter to DC and Marvel back then you never really knew if anyone read it.

Today there's instant gratification with posts. I think it makes a difference.

Today, we almost race to see who can make the first comment about the newest thing. It's so much more fun to gripe and fuss and cuss when you know there's a good chance someone will read it.

I'm not nearly as irritated about Wonder Woman's new costume today as I was too days ago.