Green Arrow theory

[BlackKnight]

The problem is however...once you have GA become a Killer...how do you undue it? How do you go back to him being a Hero...and a Member of the JLA?

Green Arrow Has Always Killed ..., this is Nothing New, Despite everyone's Concern ... He's Not Like Wolverine by No Means ..., and either is He now in this Story line ..., but he has Killed with his Bow On several Occassions in the Past ..., there's a B&B Story from the 70's I just read ..., where He killed a Drug Smuggler Dead with an Arrow.


I agree that this New Found "Allure and Mystique" with the Writing of Ollie seems as if they are trying to create some new hype for the Character to attracted reader's ...


I don't really wanna see Ollie go to Jail ...,
I'd rather see is Vigilantee Stlye Justice for a little bit myself ... Speedy lost an Arm ..., and they also lost Speedy's Daughter , they Destroyed His City, there's Choas everywhere ... Ollie Wants "Justice" ... His Way ... Big Deal if the Dude kills with an Arrow. Even More so when , he has several times.

For Anyone that *****es about this New Direction of Green Arrow ... Question . Were you Supporting and Buying the Last 29 Issues of the Emerald Archer's Book ? ... Or is this just some new found Interest, because this is the only Story Line that's actually made it's way to Disscussion panel's and Forums since the Launch of the new Series.

[The Bat]

For Anyone that *****es about this New Direction of Green Arrow ... Question . Were you Supporting and Buying the Last 29 Issues of the Emerald Archer's Book ? ... Or is this just some new found Interest, because this is the only Story Line that's actually made it's way to Disscussion panel's and Forums since the Launch of the new Series.

Actually, I've been reading Green Arrow ever since the "re-launch". When it became "Green Arrow & Black Canary" is when I stopped buying it. But I LOVE the Character. So no...it's not some new found interest because of the recent controversy.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Just because I don't read the monthlies doesn't mean I stop caring about the characters. I'd say there are a lot of folks here who consider themselves fan of many DC and Marvel characters, but don't regularly buy the monthly comics. I don't agree with the direction of most of the comics nowadays, so I don't support them.

Ollie has killed in the past. And it has been handled different at different times. You can't really go by Haney's B&B stories, as he was often writing the characters in direct opposition to the way they were portrayed elsewhere. But like I said in the first thread on this, Ollie accidentally killed a guy in a story in the 70s (I think in a Flash backup?). He went to a monestary for a while to atone for his "sin". Then he came back and no more killing until Grell launched his Long Bow Hunter mini and follow-up ongoing GA title. Then Ollie switched to conventional arrows and killed when he deemed it necessary.

So, this whole shebang is really kind of artificial, which makes it even worse. I admittedly haven't read it, but from the outside it seems that events are happening just to get Ollie in prison, and given his past history of occasional lethal force, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Chris

[BlackKnight]

He only killed Prometheous so far .... , he's trying to Kill The Electricutioner ..., but the Story line is more so involved in Barry, Hal & Dina trying to stop him ,...., and bring him back down ..., to JLA thinking level . I don't see the story going to the Level of which Jordan reached , or the Killing Spree either.

He Killed 1 Dude with an Arrow ..., He never beat anyone to death with a Crow Bar, then Blew Him up ..., or Chopped a Character up into a Thousand Pieces...

I just don't see the Big deal. You guys should read X-Force. Talk about a Blood Bath.

[The Bat]

.
You guys should read X-Force. Talk about a Blood Bath.

I do read Stab-Force. But I think of those Guys as the X-Men's Special Ops.

[samurainoir]

Look at what Peter David did to Aquaman. It sold some books for a while, but everyone pretty much agrees now it was a bad move. Not Hal as Parallax bad, but still bad.

Everyone but me. As much as I loves me the Orange and Greens of the Mego, as a READER, Peter David's run was the only one that really ever captured my attention outside of the Ocean Camo mini in the eighties by Neil Pozner.

Physical characteristics aside with the ridiculous hook hand and hippie hair and beard, David crafted one of the most cohesive and mythical Aquaman sagas, particularly if you read it alongside the hugely underrated and beautifully illustrated Atlantis Chronicles.


David put in one of the longest runs in recent history and focused on the character, and really defined Orin through his conflicts and relationships. That to me is why that series had "legs" for years beyond the initial hook-hand shock, and was the first time Aquaman was able to sustain an ongoing series when he hadn't been able to get any kind of foothold with any readership for the prior two decades.

I think JLU really picked up on the "savage" Aquaman quite well, and even the fun and awesome blustery Brave and Bold interpretation owes something to Peter David's run.


I have absolutely no problem at all with the "King Conan of the Seas" version.

To me, the character went off the rails in recent years AFTER Peter David. Eric Larson comes in with an axe to grind and proceeds with a 180 to dismantle everything David did. From there you have the deaths and reboots that really killed the character, Sub-Deigo, Spectre stepping on Atlantis. Rather than building on this wonderfully complex underwater world populated by interesting supporting characters that David crafted in the 60+ issues. Who'd of ever imagine you'd care about DOLPHIN?! Her previous character traits were defined by Daisy Duke cutoff jean shorts.

Isn't it sad that the best thing coming out of the past dozen or so years of Aquaman is Lagoon Boy? Maybe the new Aquagirl, but even she's a much less defined character to me, even under the pen of Geoff Johns. At least with Lagoon Boy I know that he's got an insatiable curiousity of the surface world and it's artifacts.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Atlantis Chronicles is cool, but it and Giffen's Legend of Aquaman (and follow-up mini) mucked up Aquaman's pure origin story of a lighthouse keep falling in love with a woman from Atlantis. All that "son of Atlan" stuff just muddied the character to the point where no one knew what to call him, Orin or Arthur.

To me, that's creators changing too much of the status quo when they should have went off and made their own characters, rather than rewriting established ones to suit them.

Chris

[BlackKnight]

I dunno How Compairing Arrow to that Aquaman Nonsense even adds up.... Arrow Killed 1 dude,... which we agree he has in the past , and with Aquaman ..., they keep re-inventing the Wheel.

I'd say Jordan and the Paralax was a Good Move.
Prior to that...
Green Lantern was Somewhat of a Joke, a B- Roster for the JLA ...,
with story lines where the character even took orders and Direction from Robin.

Post Paralax ..., people got introduced to a Kyle Rayner, which Most Fans Like, and most people can agree on the Fact , the Guy is probably the 1 stand in next to Wally that Actually worked, and more so the Last 6 Yr's after Rebirth ... Green Lantern is More popular than Ever ..., propeling the Character to New Hights. There is No Big "3" anymore ..., There's a Big "4" ... in DCU ..., Sales Show it ..., and if anything Lantern Sales Destroy WW's too .

[Earth 2 Chris]

But all the crap they did to Jordan had to be undone to get GL where he is now. Most creators can't make the reversals interesting and have them stick like Johns. Heck, even he misfired somewhat with Flash: Rebirth.

You guys go on and enjoy the storylines. I checked DC's solicitations from yesterday, and looks like they are relaunching GA with a new #1 (what is this, like 3 in the last 10 years or so?). So bets are Roy becomes GA, bionic arm and all.

I guess I'm glad someone is enjoying the current direction of the DCU. It leaves me cold, and more than a bit upset. But I guess I've outgrown the need for angst in my funny books.

Chris

[BlackKnight]

Nothing was ever really Undone with Jordan ..., The Dude Came Back to Life .... , The Corps was re-stored ..., and everything that has Happened to him in the Past , is Now Present History of the Character, and Adds to the Story Lines which He is a Part of. The Character that did replace him, is still there, in Another Book, They Do Not , NOT Acknowlege it ..., nore has anyone said this didn't happen, If anything , they Use Fuel off of it for current story's and thought processes of the Character, and supporting cast. It's part of the Allure of the character ..., for people that like the Books today, and buy the Crap outta them. It's All Mythos of the Character Now ....

You bet your Arse I love Green Lantern Now ..., I also am a Big Fan of BoosterGold and Secret Six. As far as the Titles I am really into. None of those Characters have been Greater than they are today.

Aquaman ..., Now there's something thats been Done, Undone, redone, re-invented and Now it seems Undone .

[The Bat]

I do agree that sometimes Writers paint themselves into a Corner. That happened to Chris Claremont on "The Dark Phoenix Saga"...when John Byrne changed the ending, without running it by Chris. He had Phoenix consume a Sun...and destroy a Planet wilth billions of inhabitants. Before Claremont found out about it...it was too late to change the ending. So...Marvel decreed that Jean would have to die for her crimes.

But of course in Comics...there's always a way out. Turns out the The Phoenix was never really Jean. It copied Jean...placed her in a healing Cocoon at the bottom of the Ocean.

[BlackKnight]

And Jean's Died and Been Brought Back another , what 5 times Since ? ,... Hardly a good Anology Piece for Green Arrow Killing 1 Guy, that Killed his Grand Daughter.

[The Bat]

And Jean's Died and Been Brought Back another , what 5 times Since ? ,... Hardly a good Anology Piece for Green Arrow Killing 1 Guy, that Killed his Grand Daughter.

I wasn't really making an analogy...just sort of going off on a tangent.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Nothing was ever really Undone with Jordan ..., The Dude Came Back to Life .... , The Corps was re-stored ..., and everything that has Happened to him in the Past , is Now Present History of the Character, and Adds to the Story Lines which He is a Part of. The Character that did replace him, is still there, in Another Book, They Do Not , NOT Acknowlege it ..., nore has anyone said this didn't happen, If anything , they Use Fuel off of it for current story's and thought processes of the Character, and supporting cast. It's part of the Allure of the character ..., for people that like the Books today, and buy the Crap outta them. It's All Mythos of the Character Now ....

What I meant by undone was that DC at the time had no plans of EVER bringing Hal back as GL. They put him out to pasture in the worst possible way. They redeemed him somewhat in Final Night, but still, the greatest GL, founding JLA member, had become this maniacal killer, ON HIS OWN according to the stories at the time. Absolute power HAD corrupted him ABSOLUTELY. Then Johns brought him back as the Spectre and they ran him through his own title for a while, and then FINALLY enough people had changed jobs at DC that someone finally had the smarts to put Hal back as GL. Johns wove a fantastic story and did most definitely re-engergize the franchise, but even he couldn't (pardon the pun) catch lightning in the bottle twice, hence his some what stillborn Flash:Rebirth.

My point was that there is no one to run checks and balances on the collateral, long-term damage that creators inflict on these ongoing characters. It took over 10 years for DC to finally straighten Hal out.

Chris

[The Toyroom]

I hafta say I agree with Chris...more or less being don't f' up the character if you have no way out of the corner you paint yourself into. There's only a few guys like a Geoff Johns who can work magic out of other people's messes...but as Chris also pointed out, he too can stumble on occassion, as evidenced by Flash:Rebirth.

I really don't have a problem with Green Arrow killing Prometheus....GA has killed in the past so there is some precedent. I think I have more of a problem with the maiming of Roy Harper (the bionic arm angle doesn't appeal to me and takes away from the "everyman-who-shoots-a-bow-REAL-well" aspect of the character) as well as the killing of Lian Harper. Lian had the potential to be a much more interesting character alive, considering her father was a hero and her mother Cheshire is a villain (guess this negates the Red Hood/Lian analog in Kingdom Come?). Dead, she's well dead, and now there is no longer a story-driven connection between Roy and Cheshire.