Green Arrow Fans!

[thunderbolt]

Were that many people confused by the Infinite Earths that DC felt the need to break it down to one universe anyway? And now the multiple Earths are back.

[The Toyroom]

^ I think back then it was the whole 50th anniversary thing and also to compete with Marvel's (at the time) one universe

[Earth 2 Chris]

I'm still a big fan of the original COIE.....but what it wrought....

Crisis on Infinite Earths is a fantastic, well-done series. But it fixed nothing, and all the death and destruction came the benchmark for every "event", thus the blood-letting that never seems to end. Couple that with the deconstructionist movement led by Watchmen and DK, and you have a DCU that is barely recognizable to what it once was.

Chris

[BlackKnight]

The Brightest Day ended on January 1, 1985, when Crisis began. It's been all downhill from there.

Chris

That's Actually right near the Time I started Reading.
I never even knew who Barry Allen was,.. other that He WAS Flash,.. once. And then ofcourse in the Ross Fueled Projects,... it's always been Barry.


Outside of Brave & the Bold,... Batman, Dectective, and a couple of other 1's ..., I can barely even make it threw a story pre-1985. I like the Dark Ages. If all Books stayed Pre-Dark Age..., I'd be reading like maybe 2 titles a month,.. if that, and thats it.

[samurainoir]

Crisis on Infinite Earths is a fantastic, well-done series. But it fixed nothing

From DC's perspective it did fix their sales. As much as we have a nostalgic love of that period of our childhoods pre-Crisis, financially the comics were losing money and the only thing keeping them afloat was the licensing.

It's been well documented how they even explored the possibility of Marvel taking over the comics publishing aspect in a licensing deal. Now I think THAT would have been an absolute disaster.

Not that DC didn't end up "Marvel-izing" their product anyways. Arguably their only real success of that period was by two guys who jumped shipped from Marvel to produce a "Marvel style" book in the from of The New Teen Titans, and from that success they were handed Crisis. Then we get Byrne on Superman and Frank Miller on Batman to give it their Marvel-honed touch and the rest is history in regards to their Superheroes (although a great deal of credit should be handed over to the Brits as well for their contributions to death and destruction led sales).

Not that the shock-doctrine for sales was limited to post Crisis though.

The murder of Iris Allen. Speedy on drugs. (did that follow Gwen Stacey's death and Harry's drug issue of Spiderman?)

[samurainoir]

That's Actually right near the Time I started Reading.
I never even knew who Barry Allen was,.. other that He WAS Flash,.. once. And then ofcourse in the Ross Fueled Projects,... it's always been Barry.

It's when I became a "DC Reader" as well on a regular basis. I think it was around the time when I got my own allowance so that I could buy my favourite titles on a regular basis instead of picking up sporadic issues, reading random titles in the doctor's waiting room and getting random hand me down's.

Prior to that I did like New Teen Titans, and Infantino's art was certainly eye catching on Flash, although admittedly the issues I read pre-Crisis were the Death and Destruction issues... Iris getting murdered and the Trial of Flash following the death of Zoom.

The funny thing about being a kid and reading the issue where Iris gets killed as your first issue of the Flash is the fact that I thought she was Batgirl and I just figured that somehow Batgirl had married The Flash at some point.

I have to admit that the multiple earths concepts confused me quite a bit as a young'un (how are Superman and Lois married in Superman Family?), and if Powergirl is Superman's cousin, does that mean she's Supergirl's sister?

Luckily I did stumble across a Justice League digest that reprinted the Earth 3 story, so I finally managed to figure it out.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of DC comics post-Crisis that I love. I was 10 when Crisis started, so my "mature" comics reading is all post-Crisis. But there was a tonal shift in the DCU at the time that has been slowly escalating to things like this. Sure there were a few random "shock" moments, the death of Arthur Jr and Iris for instance, but for the most part the feel of the Silver Age stories was still there, and the characters still acted accordingly, albeit with more fleshed out personalities.

I watched the "DC: New World Order" documentary on the Crisis on Two Earths DVD, and it came across as a puff piece to brag about how DiDio has revolutionized DC by bringing real world angst into comics.

I'd argue that comics, while needing conflict, are escapist fun. Ripping off limbs, killing children and decimating cities isn't "fun". I stick by my ideal that most modern writers are taking comics WAY too seriously, and are choking the super hero genre with dour stories. But that's just me.

Chris

[thunderbolt]

Bring back the fun aspect and they might get the next generation of readers they so desperately need.

[BlackKnight]

I'd argue that comics, while needing conflict, are escapist fun. Ripping off limbs, killing children and decimating cities isn't "fun". I stick by my ideal that most modern writers are taking comics WAY too seriously, and are choking the super hero genre with dour stories. But that's just me.

Chris

See ..., But everytime I read 1 of your posts ..., you act as if this Nonsense happens in every single book thats put out today has it , which isn't the case at all .

I can't read pure Cheese. If thats what other's are into that's fine. But I DO need my more so serious story's..., Man, I'm 34. I don't like reading books that act as if I am reading a Bad comedy Kiddie Movie, like G-Force, or The Santa Claus.

And Again ..., there is Plenty of that Balance out there, we have proven it, and covered the Topic, several times over the yrs, and even more so last yr in many threads.

[CaptainTrenchcoat]

I didn't read the series, just the Spoilers on various boards. Did Prometheus turn out to be somebody of note?

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Probably Black Canary's dad so Ollie can be alienated from her to make his fall complete.

[Earth 2 Chris]

See ..., But everytime I read 1 of your posts ..., you act as if this Nonsense happens in every single book thats put out today has it , which isn't the case at all .

But it's PUSHED. It's advertised as the event de jour. I'm sure there are some great, fun comics out there by DC (I'm enjoying Superman: Secret Origins), but the overall tone of the DCU is constant death, mutilation, and tragedy. It's all about getting the characters to got through these angsty beats, supposedly, to lift them back up again. But the lifting part never seems to come. If the heroes constantly fail, or lower their ideals to get their revenge/justice, then there is no triumph, and in my estimation, no point to all of it.

As a diehard DC fan who supported the company for 30 years, I reserve my right to grumble at the poor handling of characters I care about.

Chris

[The Toyroom]

I agree with you Chris....I still read tons of DC every month but I sometimes wonder why I bother....This is an ongoing problem that, for me, can be traced back to Identity Crisis. The rape revealtion of Sue Dibny and then her subsequent death was the catalyst for all of this gloom and doom.

Then came Infinite Crisis, which promised to set things right and restore the multi-verse everyone had been repeatedly asking for....only to fall short in that task with the pseudo-52universe as well as adding more maiming and killing.

And Final Crisis was supposed to be the FINAL crisis but was much ado about nothing IMO..and further upped the ante by turning Wonder Woman into a dog-faced beeyotch, Mary Marvel into a black-garbed beeyotch (for the 2nd time in recent years: see Countdown) and bumped off Batman.

Each event has built upon the previous and has literally rained crap on the heroes....WHy would you even bother being a hero in the DCU?

Now Blackest Night has a lot of dead bodies but I don't mind that because of the nature of the story and I "think" everything will be righted once the saga is over.

Hopefully Brightest Day lives up to its name but I get less hopeful with each passing moment when stuff like Cry for Justice sees the light of day.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I agree with you Chris....I still read tons of DC every month but I sometimes wonder why I bother....This is an ongoing problem that, for me, can be traced back to Identity Crisis. The rape revealtion of Sue Dibny and then her subsequent death was the catalyst for all of this gloom and doom.

The aforementioned documentary on the Crisis DVD talks about Identity Crisis like it's the greatest story ever told. At best it was a sloppy mystery with weak motivations and a paltry few decent character bits. Sue's rape/mutilation/death most certainly started DiDio's ball rolling. Morales art was pretty though.



Chris

[BlackKnight]

Superman Origins is good ..., but there's Death and Seriousness in that book as well too. So , I guess, as long as it doesn't happen to a Main character, or a Main character is Involved, the out come is more axccepted by the Mass , that don't like that stuff in books.

That's fine , And I am not trying to really argue the point of Opinion's that people have on the Subject. I just DO like a lot of the Material Today, being someone that grew up in the "Dark Ages" of Comics, and was never introduced to a Silver Age Cheese fest, that I can't really even make it threw now, going back and trying to. I just view Comics a different way , and believe that comics Aged to more so pg-13 and R Books, because the people that actually want to spend Money on them, grew up as well, and Want more detailed Stories, and Idea's rather than Super Friends.

I think JLU, BTAS and STAS all More so knew how to create that Perfect Balance, better than Anything that has ever been made, thats why Timmi-Verse still jells well today, and probably can never be beaten.


And to me, Blackest Night was the Greatest Multi-Cross over ever.