"Not as the Creator Intended"

[PNGwynne]

I don't begrudge character expansion per se; I love O'Neil's GA.

But so many changes today seem crass and purely commercial. I'm really disturbed by Speedy's maiming. And look at how they keep messing with Batman.

I guess I'm getting older, and maybe the characters are, too

[Steeler80]

Unless the original creator has a hand in the character(see Hellboy or Goon), its going to stray away from the original intention. The only one I can think of that has stayed sort of close would be the FF. for the most part still a family of explorers/superheroes.

But if Bill Jemas had had his way, the FF mystique would have been gutted. An internet uproar at Waid's firing was pretty much all that saved the horrid changes that Jemas had in mind.

[ctc]

>so many changes today seem crass and purely commercial

You're right, but that's not new. (*ahem* Anyone remeber the 80's? Ninjas, ninjas, ninjas?) It's ANOTHER hazard of legacy characters.

>I guess I'm getting older, and maybe the characters are, too

Well.... actually, they're not. That's kind of the problem. They've been rumminating the same ideas for decades. The PRESENTATION changes every so often, but it's still the same old stories. As you get older it becomes more noticable, but it's been there all along.



Don C.

[thunderbolt]

But if Bill Jemas had had his way, the FF mystique would have been gutted. An internet uproar at Waid's firing was pretty much all that saved the horrid changes that Jemas had in mind.

I gotta ask, what was Jemas going to do??

[Steeler80]

It's in this Waid interview: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40896. The FF questions are about halfway through the interview. Of course, this is Waid's take but I've heard this from more independent sources as well.

Would have been a really gripping series.


And CTC, you're absolutely right. Remember Ollie had lost an arm in Dark Knight returns? And, in DC continuity, Ollie had his arm stuck and wouldn't let Supes take it off leading to his death in an explosion? Really though, there's probably not a truly original idea anymore. Just original variations on a theme.

[samurainoir]

I gotta ask, what was Jemas going to do??

Jemas actually did get his way... by moving his ideas over to Marvel Knights 4, which made them more of a superhero sitcom.

Great art by Steve McNiven on MK4, but Waid's run was still loads better.

And it's not like John Byrne didn't try to move them to the suburbs and have a nosy neighbour during his run on the title. That didn't last either.

[samurainoir]

Did Roy lose his "needle arm"? DC could turn the whole thing into a PSA.

"THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO DRUGS!"

(for those that have seen Arrested Development, this is pants splitting funny)

[ctc]

>there's probably not a truly original idea anymore. Just original variations on a theme

There is, but there isn't, but there is. You're not gonna see a novel permutation from the same old comics: they became hopelessly inbred in the 80's. But you CAN see different takes on things (and different stories) if you look at the independants (and not just the superhero wannabees,) or comics from different countries. (And even THOSE books get caught in ruts, but they're different ruts from ours.)

Don C.

[Riffster]

Remember Wally was very conflicted about being Kid flash, He would never have jopined the NTT if it weren't for Raven. Plus the whole his powers are killing him part, I think wally was his own character all along. Quite different then how barry was written.

[aquatroy]

^ And now Pym is going by the name The Wasp in honor of his dead ex-wife....They've really f'ed up his character quite a bit.

Oh, I don't know. Marvel has gone a long way to rehabilitate the character. The Hank Pym, Reed Richards slap fight in Mighty Avengers was very cool. I also like this new idea of Pym as Scientist Supreme of the MU. Not that there aren't others smarter the Pym, but that he's the one doing science for science's sake and taking it to a place of magic.