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  • samurainoir
    Eloquent Member
    • Dec 26, 2006
    • 18758

    #46
    Originally posted by ctc
    >I had professors in college who absolutely frowned on the use of markers for final renderings.

    That illustrates my problem with a lot of “educated” artists: there comes to be a “right” way of doing things; and there isn’t. It’s all about effect; of getting what’s in your head onto the page. If that involves water colours, then so be it. Markers, pencil, pastels, computers, crayons... whatever. Once you start critiquing the method, and not the result you’ve shifted the focus from the art itself, and onto something else. And you place unnecessary limits on what can be done, and swing everything a little closer to intellectual inbreeding.
    Very will stated Don. I totally agree.
    My store in the MEGO MALL!

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    • samurainoir
      Eloquent Member
      • Dec 26, 2006
      • 18758

      #47
      Originally posted by thunderbolt
      Several of those covers weren't done by Williams.
      Oops! My bad. I was too lazy to go find the interior art, but I'm sure Williams fans already know how versatile he is.
      My store in the MEGO MALL!

      BUY THE CAPTAIN CANUCK ACTION FIGURE HERE!

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      • kingdom warrior
        OH JES!!
        • Jul 21, 2005
        • 12478

        #48
        Originally posted by samurainoir
        These were exactly the kind of ideological discussions we had at great length when I was at art school, in terms of "The Tools". This was during the huge paradigm shift of the nineties as Digital became requisite in most programs, and the game-changer regarding publishing... both in the new frontier of digital and traditional print.

        What we need to focus on here is the "Whys" of the more traditional mediums.

        Pen nibs, brushes and inks were the tools of pros for a reason. That reason is simply about clean reproduction and what could be reproduced in a cost effective manner for the consumption of the reader. In this case, we're talking comics, and that Black Plate in the printing process was crucial for readability. This of course became institutionalized and was a True-ism for the Lion's Share of the Twentieth Century, for technical reasons. I totally get why Markers were off limits, and ballpoint pens would make you a laughingstock.

        This has not been true for well over a decade now. Print and Publishing technology is an entirely different world. Comics are no longer four color newsprint, and you can pretty much reproduce anything now at relatively low costs. It's been TWO DECADES since Bill Sienkiewicz and Dave McKean have produced mainstream, commercially successful projects using whatever they could get their hands on to make Daredevil: Love and War, Elektra Assassin, and Arkham Asylum. I'm not saying every project needs to take the Kitchen Sink approach, but the envelope was already pushed a generation ago, and it's only gotten easier with imaging technology where it is today. I can only imagine what a nightmare it would have been to do color separations for those projects!


        As for the "What Happens when your computer crashes" at 2 in the morning argument, I'd say it's the same as if your dog ate your drawing or asking What happens if you spill your last bottle of Ink at 2 in the morning! Yes, you can start over, except for digital, you likely have backup files to revert to.

        I require my designers to remote back-up to an online server as often as they can. As someone who works in a purely digital field where a computer is essential to deadlines, I can tell you that from my experience it's reached a point where it's very unlikely that you won't be able to find a computer at 2 in the morning if you're not in the backwoods, and I don't know any pro that doesn't have both a desktop and laptop machine, or run out to Kinko's or a 24 hour Web Cafe if the internet's gone down at home.


        Comics is very fortunate in many ways for being one of the last havens for pen and paper guys. I've seen it on the other end here in the digital pond, and I'm a guy who absolutely loves old-school illustrators and try to throw work that way when I can, but clients don't usually want to go that route. It's heartbreaking when you encounter some of the "Greats" in the illustration field and they are struggling to find work because just about everything from book covers, packaging design, movie posters, magazines, advertising, etc has gone Photoshop/Digital. Even if they do try to adapt to the computer age, you've got kids coming out of school who are so much faster and efficient because they grew up with one hand on the mouse. It's a really really sad state of affairs.
        Very well Stated....Thanks

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        • ctc
          Fear the monkeybat!
          • Aug 16, 2001
          • 11183

          #49
          >What we need to focus on here is the "Whys" of the more traditional mediums.

          Lots of good ideas. I think for a number of cartoonists there’s always been a struggle between what you WANT to do, and what CAN be done. Technology, money, personal limits.... it all factors in. Which is again why I say there’s no “right” way of doing things. You do what you have to for sake of the story.

          >Pen nibs, brushes and inks were the tools of pros for a reason.

          HAW! I STILL use nibs.

          I think part of the problem with computers and old school fans is that we humans like to believe that hard work is rewarded. (And therefore worthwhile.) Computers seem too easy; like cheating. So we get all wrapped around the axle about ‘em ‘cos it seems like more of them punk kids coming in and getting all the accolades without the work. Whereas in OUR day you had to draw comics with your feet.... in the snow.... uphill.... both ways....!

          FUN FACT: I've read articles from the 40's and 50's that accuse the airbrush of the same sort of sins we now heap upon the computer.

          That; and it looks DIFFERENT. People don’t like different.

          Ironically; CGI art is usually MORE time consuming than old fashioned stuff.

          >What happens if you spill your last bottle of Ink at 2 in the morning!

          ....it’s usually coffee. FUN FACT: Sometimes you can digitally edit coffee stains out of a page of art!

          *sigh*

          >Very will stated Don. I totally agree.

          I find my point of view different from most cartoonists ‘cos I never woke up and said “I want to be a cartoonist!” I woke up one day and said “I have a story, and the best way to present it is as a comic!” So I never cared what the industry thought about anything. What I wanted to achieve was quite different from anything else out there.

          Don C.

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          • Raydeen1
            Persistent Member
            • May 23, 2008
            • 1036

            #50
            Art B, Jeff Smith and the guy doing Batman and Sons are mmy faves right now.

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            • bondtoddbond
              Mego Museum Super Spy
              • Aug 14, 2009
              • 489

              #51
              How about Frank Quitely? Batman and Robin looked great, and All Star Superman was a fun read too. I'll give a shout out for my hometown guy - Mike Hawthorne. He just did some GI Joe work that was really cool.
              sigpic "It's like you're unravelling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting..."

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