Disney Buys Marvel

[Earth 2 Chris]

Three words:

X-Men Origins: PLUTO

Seriously, as long as they keep churning out half-decent films based on Marvel characters, I'll happily be mad about the mouse.

Actually, if there is a Mickey-verse mutant, I'd say it's Goofy. Sure he is supposed to be dumb, but he's a dog, yet he walks and talks like a man, where Pluto doesn't. What does this mean?!? I think he's a mutie freak!

Chris

[haggis]

Three words:

X-Men Origins: PLUTO

Seriously, as long as they keep churning out half-decent films based on Marvel characters, I'll happily be mad about the mouse.

[ctc]

>Then Marvel ditched everything and started over with #1 and these aren't the same characters.

AH! THAT I understand! Oh, the 90's... was there nothing you couldn't ruin? Yeah, it was kinda bad for them to take their books.... a big part of the appeal to which was the history and back story.... and reset everything. 'Course, after 400 issues you've pretty much done it all.... but it's a catch-22: you've got to keep the book going, so you need new stuff, but you're also constrained by the preceeding books 'cos a significant portion of your audience are long time readers.

>the Joker was created as a scary serial killer. DK harkens back to the earlier, and modern comic versions of the characters. I don't think Lee and Ditko ever intended for Spidey to disembowl and eat people

Hmmmm.... THAT seems like a cop-out to me, since Zombie Spiderman was intended to eat people. I hear this sort of argument a lot, and I kinda think it relates to the expectation thing I keep bringing up. Because of your frame of refrence (based on a few things, notably which version was your first and therefore the patterning one) it's easy for you (and a LOT of people) to accept the Joker as a bad, scary killer. Whereas it's tough to rationalize a vicious Spidey; even though it makes perfect sense given the context of the story, because your patterned Spidey doesn't fit the template.

And seriously; "Spiderman J" is SOOOOO wrong on so many levels!

....so very, very wrong....

Don C.

[WheresRICHARD]

And for comparison sake, let's look at a video rental store like Blockbuster...

Look at all the different Batman products spread out across all the age demographics in various sections around the store...

Regular Release on the wall along with the rest of the Grown Up movies

http://mos.totalfilm.com/images/e/exclusive-the-dark-knight-dvd-trailer-400-75.jpg

http://www.exo.net/~ronh/DVD/images/large/B000AU9UYM.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Action Adventure Section

http://www.kingroom.com/movies/2008/batman/batman-dvd-1.jpg

Comedy or Classics section?

http://www.filmsinreview.com/archives/images/2008/04/Batman_DVD_Cover_UK.jpg

Over in the Anime section you've might have this one...

http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/batman_gothamknight_1dvd1.jpg

Kids Section

http://ttbmarketplace.cachefly.net/batman_caped_dvd.jpg

http://ttbmarketplace.cachefly.net/w27.jpg

http://www.scifimoviepage.com/dvd/newadven_batman-dvd.jpg

Finally Video Game Section...

http://shaunmusco.com/images/Printed/PS2%20Covers/Batman_Begins_Dvd_ntsc-front.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2kjisMm3M9Y/SbmKKi28ovI/AAAAAAAAIM4/D7Md8KSsrkc/s400/Arkham+Asylum+Playstation+3.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eP-TQH6WbX0/SOpc6UnfDoI/AAAAAAAAF3A/wOco15XRCB0/s400/Mortal+Kombat+vs.+DC+Universe+Video+Game+Box+Art.jpg

Is anyone complaining that it's inappropriate to have The Dark Knight DVD or Arkham Asylum Video Game in the same store as Batman Brave and Bold?




Now by comparison. You go to Toys R Us...

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/spiderman-shoot-n-grab-pk.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bfUEirTtL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

http://spideysalesense.com/images/spiderman_superhero_squad.jpg

Now go to a comic store, behind a Glass Case, probably up high with a price tag of $150...

http://www.forbiddenplanet.co.uk/images/D5601.jpg

And let's not even pretend the the contemporary comic store is necessarily making anywhere near their bulk profits in sales of comics for kids. ALL of these places cater to the adult collector. Who in their right mind is going to buy their kid a $150 Spiderman Zombie statue? And if the store is one of the rare places that happens to carry kids stuff, more often than not, I've seen them (at least the good places you'd even consider taking a child to) has a separate kids section, just like a video store or a book store. If your local comic store is putting The Walking Dead trade paperbacks next to Disney's Cars comics, it's time for a new comic store!

Let's face it, the average child has a better chance of seeing that freakin' scary Heath Leger Joker Poster from The Dark Knight on a Subway ad or at the Movie theatre while catching the latest Disney movie than they will ever catch a glimpse of the Marvel Zombies statue within their childhood.

http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Batman_The_Dark_Knight/the_dark_knight_movie_poster_joker1.jpg

Why no public outrage at how inappropriate The Dark Knight or Batman begins is for five year olds? Common sense seems to prevail within Movie Theatres, Video Stores and Bookstores where age-appropriate material are marketed and classified accordingly.

Whew, I thought you were gonna try to call BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD a kids' version of Batman, in which case I would have had words with you. I'm 41 and that's my favorite Batman cartoon EVER

[BlackKnight]

I seriously Doubt Joker Was Created to Brutally Kill a Robin with A CrowBar,.. & then Blow the Dude up with a Bomb,.. Or Shoot & Paralize Batgirl Then Create Sexual Acts Upon Her Body & Take PhotoGraphs of the Encounter & Show them to Gordon Of what He did ...

& I am Sure Batman Wasn't Created to Get Blasted to a Skeletal Remain , to Where is Body is Dead, but He is Off World...

& I don't Give a Crap what Winnik Wrote,.. Dick Grayson was Not Created to Be Batman Either.

All Comics Have Graphics..., To me a Mindless Zombie in a Fictional Story is Seriously Harmless Compaired to a Serial Killer/ Sex Offender/ Child Murder'er .. Those Actually Exsist,.. & you Read about them all Day long in the Paper,.. & the News.

The Idea of the Joker is Far more Horrifying on an Epic Level,.. than a Zombie,.. Because as of right now,.. Joker's Actions actually Exsist in the Real World.

[samurainoir]

As scary as Ledger looks, it doesn't compare to a zombified Spidey who looks to have stuck his hand THROUGH his bride in that statue. That statue was the offender that I spoke of earlier. And it was down low, in a case, right under a cash register.

Also, the Joker was created as a scary serial killer. DK harkens back to the earlier, and modern comic versions of the characters. I don't think Lee and Ditko ever intended for Spidey to disembowl and eat people.

Chris

We all know that's not how it really works when it comes to Authorial intent and licensed properties owned by multimedia conglomerates is it? Particularly when by it's very nature, hundreds of thousands of people as work for hire hands create under the Authorial Identity of "Marvel Comics" and more recently "Marvel Entertainment", and in the future "Marvel-Disney".

Batman also carried a gun and went around shooting people. Seigel and Shuster wanted Superman to go around punching politicians.

"Marvel Comics" is the author on record of Spider-man, and Lee and Ditko really haven't had a say in the fate of Spiderman for four decades. Whether they object to Spider-Zombie or not, it comes part and parcel with signing away your rights by doing Work For Hire. Doesn't mean they shouldn't share in the profits of those $150 Spiderman statues though, in reflecting the kind of Royalty deals someone like Liefeld gets for Deadpool action figure and movie rights. Stan Lee has had his payday over the years (and even he had to sue Marvel to get it), but my understanding is Ditko washed his hands of Spiderman long ago and does not want a cent of the Spider-money ala Alan Moore and Watchmen.

[Earth 2 Chris]

As scary as Ledger looks, it doesn't compare to a zombified Spidey who looks to have stuck his hand THROUGH his bride in that statue. That statue was the offender that I spoke of earlier. And it was down low, in a case, right under a cash register.

Also, the Joker was created as a scary serial killer. DK harkens back to the earlier, and modern comic versions of the characters. I don't think Lee and Ditko ever intended for Spidey to disembowl and eat people.

Chris

[samurainoir]

And for comparison sake, let's look at a video rental store like Blockbuster...

Look at all the different Batman products spread out across all the age demographics in various sections around the store...

Regular Release on the wall along with the rest of the Grown Up movies



Action Adventure Section


Comedy or Classics section?


Over in the Anime section you've might have this one...


Kids Section




Finally Video Game Section...




Is anyone complaining that it's inappropriate to have The Dark Knight DVD or Arkham Asylum Video Game in the same store as Batman Brave and Bold?




Now by comparison. You go to Toys R Us...




Now go to a comic store, behind a Glass Case, probably up high with a price tag of $150...

And let's not even pretend the the contemporary comic store is necessarily making anywhere near their bulk profits in sales of comics for kids. ALL of these places cater to the adult collector. Who in their right mind is going to buy their kid a $150 Spiderman Zombie statue? And if the store is one of the rare places that happens to carry kids stuff, more often than not, I've seen them (at least the good places you'd even consider taking a child to) has a separate kids section, just like a video store or a book store. If your local comic store is putting The Walking Dead trade paperbacks next to Disney's Cars comics, it's time for a new comic store!

Let's face it, the average child has a better chance of seeing that freakin' scary Heath Leger Joker Poster from The Dark Knight on a Subway ad or at the Movie theatre while catching the latest Disney movie than they will ever catch a glimpse of the Marvel Zombies statue within their childhood.



Why no public outrage at how inappropriate The Dark Knight or Batman begins is for five year olds? Common sense seems to prevail within Movie Theatres, Video Stores and Bookstores where age-appropriate material are marketed and classified accordingly.

[WheresRICHARD]

Wow, I hadn't seen MOST of these! Marvel has apparently been "Disneyfied" for some time already!

[samurainoir]

Yep and there was even a regular Electric Company "Spidey Super Stories" comic book. If Disney Marvel came out with something like that today, you can bet people would forget about the 70s "Spidey Super Stories" and say "Oh no, look what Disney is doing to Spiderman!"

And how quickly we forget about the more contemporary versions of "Spidey Super Stories" they have put out over the years... with a particular emphasis on the "Marvel Adventures" line and the aggressiveness that they have put these manga/digest sized volumes into kid/teen sections of bookstores and libraries in the past half-decade!

There is plenty of Kid-Friendly Marvel Comics. If everyone who complains about the inaccessibility of the "mainline" stuff actually bought the kid friendly stuff over Amazing/Spectacular/Ultimate, I'm guessing we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I mean look at how many different incarnations Marvel has produced to access that market over many many years...





















I for one love the fact that there are now sub-brands like Spiderman and Friends and Tiny Titans that I can introduce to my niece and nephew. There were certainly not things like this for them in the 80's and 90's for pre-schoolers. Or even the sixties when Stan and co were pushing for older teen and college age readership.



I don't think anyone has to worry about Disney "Disneyfying" the Marvel characters, because Marvel has already gone and done it.

Anyone read Pet Avengers yet? Any good?



and one of my favorites for readers of ALL ages...


Hopefully the folks who are enjoying Tiny Titans are getting a kick out of the Franklin Richards series as well.

[kryptosmaster]

Hmmmm....

Lots going on here.

>The movies are ok but the comics...well they just aren't the same ones I started reading.

This line in particular makes me sad. It's a popular sentiment these days, and one I can't really empathise with. Why would you want a story/character/series to be the same? 'Course, with the Marvel characters you have to differentiate WHICH same you're referring to, since they've been made over more than a few times over the years. (Not as much as the DC cast, but then again, they're not nearly as old.)

Don C.

Let me elaborate:
I'll use Fantastic Four for an example. I bought FF for many many years. I have a huge run and love these characters that started in FF #1 and ran through #400-something. Then Marvel ditched everything and started over with #1 and these aren't the same characters. Oh sure they are Mr Fantastic and the Thing and Torch and Invisible Woman (or did they revert back to Girl?) but they're NOT the same ones I was reading before that. let's call them the Earth-2 version for argument's sake: similiar yet not the same and the previous 400+ issues don't count.
That's what I meant.
Rich

[WheresRICHARD]

marvel has been marketing kiddie versions of the xmen and spidey to preschoolers for years (and decades for spidey remeber when Morgan Freeman was easy reader on Electric company so was Spiderman)

Yep and there was even a regular Electric Company "Spidey Super Stories" comic book. If Disney Marvel came out with something like that today, you can bet people would forget about the 70s "Spidey Super Stories" and say "Oh no, look what Disney is doing to Spiderman!"

[jds1911a1]

So we are going to get either Lil' Wolverine (Teeny X-Men?) or Disney Zombies?

Rich

marvel has been marketing kiddie versions of the xmen and spidey to preschoolers for years (and decades for spidey remeber when Morgan Freeman was easy reader on Electric company so was Spiderman)

[BlackKnight]

It IS somewhat Comical to Read seemingless Endless complaints on Marvel Zombie Stuff ..., Considering there really is not that Much of it out there,.. Compaired to The Endless "Stuff that isn't or Directed Towards Children" .

There's like What,.. Maybe 25 Books right now,.. with Probably 30 Different Covers,.. & a Couple of Trades,.. & Only Half of those Books Even Had Zombie Spider-Man in them...

3 Action Figures
3 Busts
3 Statues
About 10 Mini-Mates
A Couple of Shirts & Posters ...

& I think thats about it...
Now Can Anyone Really List ALL Of the Endless Other Marvel Comics, Toys, Statues, Busts, Posters, Shirts & Clothing ?

Didn't think So..

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

Lots going on here.

>The movies are ok but the comics...well they just aren't the same ones I started reading.

This line in particular makes me sad. It's a popular sentiment these days, and one I can't really empathise with. Why would you want a story/character/series to be the same? 'Course, with the Marvel characters you have to differentiate WHICH same you're referring to, since they've been made over more than a few times over the years. (Not as much as the DC cast, but then again, they're not nearly as old.)

>I've never been into the darker Marvel stuff anyway. I like it just like it was in the 70's.

Like that; with Son of Satan, Satanna, the Rampaging Hulk.... "Dark" isn't new to Marvel. They were puishing things in the ealry 70's.... mostly 'cos horror was popular and the Warren mags were doing well. (Which is why they released stuff like the Rampaging Hulk I bet.) Really, it's cyclical. Light/dark/kind friendly/"grownup"....

>The same characters are marketed to adults and children.

True; but in Marvel's case the books have generally been marketed to an older crowd.... 14 to 20. The MERCHANDAISING has been aimed at kids.

>You can't have it both ways.

I disagree, partly because they HAVE had it both ways, and partly because of how the model works. In the past, the toys were the seeder industry: they got the kids interested in the characters. The books would hold them for a few more years after they outgrew the toys. Nowadays it seems like the comics have been forgotten by the parent companies 'cos they don't generate anywhere's near the revenue the toys did. It worked the other way around when Marvel was it's own entity 'cos the comics WERE what they did. Once they became part of a conglomerate they turned into another department. Marvel proper does comics, but they're one part of Marvel Entertainment.

>the Zombie Stuff is Already Marketed for Adults only

That too.... and really; the Marvel Zombie stuff wasn't that bad. There IS a lot of heroism in the story; especially by part 2. It's NOT all doom and gloom. The stakes are a lot higher than most books, since people ACTUALLY die; but for me that just makes the heroes MORE heroic since they're fighting a more desperate fight.

I don't understand a lot of the current "comics SHOULD BE for kids" hate either. (Some of it I do, but that's 'cos the stories are poorly done, not 'cos of the subject matter.) What confounds me is how many folks who expose this also see the 80's as the pinnacle of superhero comic; and see stuff like the Watchmen and Dark Knight as peaks of comicbokkedness.... considering THOSE are the books that STARTED it all.

>Not at my LCS....on the shelf with the mainstream stuff

Which would seem to be more of a problem with the store than the books.

>Hopefully with Disney calling the shots we won't see anymore Zombies.

Unles they decide to keep Marvel it's own separate little outfit, and the execs decide that Zombies are the next big thing. "Say, the Distinguished Competition" is doing something with zombie superheores too; aren't they? And that OTHER zombie comic was just made into a tv show? Well then, our choice is clear...." Then it's all undead all the time!

*sigh*

>To me, it's bad marketing to have Zombie Spidey co-exist with pre-school Spidey on merchandise.

Maybe, unless you go back to the old model wherein the kid merchandaise brings them in and the "zombies" keep them around longer.

>Punishers gonna get wussified again

That's all part of the cycle too: sometimes he subdues the bad guy with "mercy rounds," sometimes he kills them in a hail of oddly bloodless gunfire....

>I think it's been a few decades since Disney has espoused abstinence.

Didn't see the Jonas Brothers episode of South Park, did you? There's a good article on Disney and sex in the book "How To Read Donald Duck."

>I'd say there aren't going to be huge changes with the comic books since it's pretty much not where the real $$$ resides

I think we're gonna hafta wait and see, but I kinda agree with this one. Seems like the comics themselves account for a really small amount of the bucks any more.

Say! Disney's been releasing the Miyazaki films over here, right? Maybe they'll decide THAT'S the route to go with the Marvel characters!

Don C.